Seatime for 4ths

Going through the licensing process ? Have queries, comments, or do you need an answer to that obscure exam question ? This is the place to post.
H2O
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Seatime for 4ths

Postby H2O » Sun May 01, 2011 10:16 am

Awesome Site!

Hey guys,

Does anyone know how many hours (sea time) are needed to qualify for 4th class? I've heard 6months (6months x 30days a month x 8hrs ?)

and also would hours worked on a smaller tug boat count towards sea time hours?

Thanks for the help!!

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The Dieselduck
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Re: Seatime for 4ths

Postby The Dieselduck » Sun May 01, 2011 6:06 pm

In Canada, for the fourth class m.e. license, you need 36 months of seatime. This of course can be made up of various things, known as qualifying service. But at least six months must be sailing experience as a rating in the engine room, or unlicensed engineer, and such.

See the Marine Personnel Regulations (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... .html#h-42) for full bandwith of joyful learning. Below is the seatime requirements, and what some other time might be deemed "seatime".

2. Experience Either having successfully completed a 3-year approved cadet training program in marine engineering or having acquired at least 36 months of qualifying service comprising the following:
(a) at least 6 months as an engineer, engine-room rating or assistant engineer, performing the duties set out in subsection (2) in an engine room on one or more of the following vessels the main engines of which have a total power of at least 500 kW:
(i) a motor vessel, in the case of an applicant for a motor ship certificate, or
(ii) a steamship, in the case of an applicant for a steamship certificate;
(b) a credit of 6 months of qualifying service if the applicant submits the certificate referred to in subparagraph 3(f)(i); and
(c) any remaining time in any combination of the following types of service:
(i) up to 12 months of fitting, erecting or repairing machinery,
(ii) up to 6 months of metal turning,
(iii) up to 6 months of brass finishing,
(iv) up to 6 months of planing, slotting, shaping and milling,
(v) up to 3 months of welding,
(vi) up to 6 months in a drafting office as mechanical or electrical drafter engaged in arrangement, detail or design drawings,
(vii) up to 24 months as an engineer or assistant engineer on day work,
(viii) up to 6 months as an engineer, engine-room rating, assistant engineer or electrician during the fitting out, laying up or refitting of one or more vessels,
(ix) up to 24 months as the person responsible for operating pumps on one or more tankers,
(x) up to 24 months as an engine-room rating or assistant engineer performing watchkeeping duties in an engine room on board one or more towed barges or similar vessels, the boiler or boilers of which have a total heating surface of at least 92.9 m2,
(xi) up to 9 months as person responsible for operating tunnel machinery on one or more self-unloading bulk cargo ships,
(xii) up to 24 months as an electrician on one or more vessels that have a rated generator capacity of at least 300 kW,
(xiii) a credit of 12 months of service for successful completion of an approved training program in diesel engines,
(xiv) a credit of up to 3 months of service for each of the following courses that has been successfully completed, at an institution recognized by a provincial government or foreign administration:
(A) applied mechanics,
(B) thermodynamics,
(C) machine design,
(D) electrotechnology, and
(E) naval architecture, and
(xv) a credit of 12 months of service for successful completion, at an institution recognized by a provincial government or foreign administration, of a training program in mechanical or electrical engineering.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

H2O
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Re: Seatime for 4ths

Postby H2O » Mon May 02, 2011 10:07 am

Thanks Diesel Duck.

so being on a tug of under 700hp would not qualify for hours i guess? Too small.

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The Dieselduck
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Re: Seatime for 4ths

Postby The Dieselduck » Mon May 02, 2011 11:06 am

Actually I believe that time is valid. 700hp=521kw so its good. There is TC guys floating around this board and I am sure he will have some input for you.

Martin
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

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JollyJack
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Re: Seatime for 4ths

Postby JollyJack » Tue May 03, 2011 6:19 am

You require 36 months of qualifying service for 4th Class, Motor or Steam, 6 months of which must be as Engineer or Engine Room Rating on one or more vessels the main engines of which must have a total power of at least 500 Kw (670.25 bhp).

You may note that it says "the MAIN ENGINES of which must have a TOTAL POWER of 500 Kw." It does NOT say "propulsive power" as it does for the higher 3rd, 2nd and 1st Class Certificates. The "main engines" need not be propulsion prime movers for 4th Class.

The remainder of the qualifying service may be in any combination of the experience listed in section 147 (1) table item 2 of the Marine Personnel Regulations, posted by Martin, http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... .html#h-42

Other requirements are set out in the table at sect 147(1):

3. Certificates and other documents to be provided to the examiner

(a) MED with respect to STCW basic safety; STCW VI/1

(b) MED training with respect to proficiency in survival craft and rescue boats other than fast rescue boats; STCW VI/2

(c) MED in advanced fire fighting; STCW VI/3

(d) marine advanced first aid; (MAFA)

(e) ship watchkeeping practices taught using a propulsive plant simulator; (PPS 1) and

(f) for the sole purpose of obtaining a certificate with an STCW endorsement,
(i) practical skills for marine engineers, and
(ii) approved training record book for applicants for a Fourth-class Engineer certificate completed under the supervision of the vessel’s chief engineer.

4. Pass examinations
(a) An examination on ship watchkeeping practices using a propulsive plant simulator, after providing the certificate referred to in paragraph 3(e);

(b) after meeting the requirements of items 2 and 3 and paragraph (a), a written examination on general engineering knowledge at the fourth-class level;

(c) one of the following written examinations at the fourth-class level, after meeting the requirements of paragraph (b):
(i) in the case of an applicant for a Fourth-class Engineer, Motor Ship certificate, engineering knowledge of motor vessels, or
(ii) in the case of an applicant for a Fourth-class Engineer, Steamship certificate, engineering knowledge of steamships; and

(d) oral examination on the knowledge set out in paragraphs (a) to (c) and knowledge of the legislation relevant to the certificate sought, after passing the examination referred to in paragraph (c).


The kind of sea service is important and must consist of the activities set out in 147 (2) as far as possible. Obviously, a motor tug doesn't have a boiler or a rainmaker, for example:

(2) The qualifying service set out in paragraph 2(a) of the table to subsection (1) shall include the following duties:

(a) preparing main machinery and auxiliary equipment for sea;

(b) shutting down main machinery;

(c) operating main machinery;

(d) preparing, starting, coupling and changing over alternators and generators;

(e) transferring fuel;

(f) preparing and operating evaporators and distillation plants;

(g) operating oily water separators and conducting appropriate tests to ensure the correct operation of those separators;

(h) preparing and operating air compressors;

(i) preparing and starting steering gear and conducting appropriate tests to ensure the correct operation of the steering gear;

(j) testing boiler water-level gauges under normal working conditions;

(k) operating boilers, including the combustion system;

(l) transferring ballast and fresh water;

(m) lubricating machinery;

(n) pumping bilges;

(o) taking machinery readings and compiling the data in the engine-room log books; and

(p) acting as assistant to the engineer in charge of the engineering watch.
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