The Search for Regulation

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Brad
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The Search for Regulation

Postby Brad » Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:28 pm

I've been up and down the TC and Justice website looking for the regulations regarding potable water, I've found regs regarding tank requirements:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... C_c._1105/

But I'm looking more for treatment standards, regs on when and where you can make water, etc.

Any ideas where they are? Health Canada is where I am looking now but nothing is really ship specific so far

Brad
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Re: The Search for Regulation

Postby Brad » Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:47 pm

So here is Health Canada standards for the water:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/wa ... ex-eng.php

Still nothing on making and treatment...

Brad
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Re: The Search for Regulation

Postby Brad » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:04 pm

Wow,
Why can't TC make it this easy:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga-mnotice. ... 18B9ABAB41

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Big Pete
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Re: The Search for Regulation

Postby Big Pete » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:09 pm

The MCA certainly lay it all out for you, looks like you found everything you wanted.
However, beware, T. C. may have slightly different ideas.
Had a quick read through from your link and noticed that the advice on UV sterilisers has changed. BEFORE if you had a UV steriliser with an alarm to tell you when the UV light output was too low to sterilise the water you were not required to sterilise the water with chlorine. If the UV unit did not have an alarm you had to use Chlorine as a back up.
I have also seen that it is not advised to use an Evaporator or RO plant, for Potable water production, within 200 miles of a major river estuary, including all the Baltic, Southern North Sea, English Channel, Med., Sea of Marmora & Black Sea, but I can not remember where that came from.
When working on ROV support ships in the North Sea I remember that Oil Company Rep on board was must insistent that we did not make water when we were close to Oil Platforms or Rigs.
In general I would always try to make Potable water as far from land as possible and make technical water near land, at anchor or alongside which is just common sense really, we end up washing in it, drinking it and having our food cooked in it. You don't want any Chemical, bacterial or Viral contamination.
Although the MCA issue much of this information as guidance notes and it does not have the force of law, if something goes wrong and you have followed the guidance given you won't get blamed. If you haven't followed the guidance and something goes wrong, get a good lawyer.
Good luck with the studying.
BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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JK
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Re: The Search for Regulation

Postby JK » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:45 am

Nothing in the Potable Water Regulations for Common Carriers, either.
Doncha you just love looking for a specific item in the regs??!

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.%2C_c._1105/page-1.html#docCont

Brad
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Re: The Search for Regulation

Postby Brad » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:41 am

Thank JK and BP,

We have been using the MCA guidelines, as we're UK flagged, and the Norwegian guidance as we sometimes work in that sector (And they usually have stricter regulations on things, which are good to use as a standard for working worldwide, we found)

http://www.fhi.no/dokumenter/fb2fe8a42a.pdf

I'm still looking for the Canadian equivalant,

I had a "Sketch and Describe a Hydrophore system" on my general paper which I'd never seen while studying, but easily did from memory of re-piping our system with CPVC last year, so I want to be fresh on the regs for my Orals. The time it is taking to find the bloody things however...

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Big Pete
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Re: The Search for Regulation

Postby Big Pete » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:09 pm

On a more humerous note, a couple of years ago I joined a ship called the Boa Rover, the Chief i relievd told me there was a big problem with the domestic fresh water pipes, they were made of copper and they were corroding through and leaking all over the ship, as she had cabins for 140 people it was a major problem. He claimed it was because the ship was built in Norway and they didn't use as good quality Copper as they use in Poland. The first night I had a shower I realised the problem, the water was massively overchlorinated. It turned out that somebody had decided to save money on the Chlorine by ordering swimming pool chlorine tablets and the Mates had been following the instructions for dosing swimming pools!!! You really couldn't make it up.
Not surprising that all the Copper and Brass in the system was dissolving.
BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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JollyJack
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Re: The Search for Regulation

Postby JollyJack » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:11 am

I did a bit of digging and it seems that, although potable water standards are established by the Federal government, they are enforced by Provinces. That opens a huge can of worms called the British North America Act, 1867, renamed the Constitution Act, 1982. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/index.html

Sections 91 and 92 specify what powers are divided between Parliament and Provinces respectively. Section 92 (8) says:

92. In each Province the Legislature may exclusively make Laws in relation to Matters coming within the Classes of Subjects next hereinafter enumerated; that is to say,

8. Municipal Institutions in the Province.

I guess that can be taken to read municipal water, which must conform to Federal standards.

As far as potable water aboard ships, the Maritime Occupational Health and Safety Regulations (SOR/2010-120) apply. The relevant section is:

73. (1) Every employer must ensure that employees are provided with potable water for drinking, personal washing and food preparation.

(2) The potable water must

(a) be in sufficient quantity to meet the purposes set out in subsection (1); and

(b) meet the quality guidelines set out in the most recent edition of Guidelines for Canadian Drinking Water Quality, prepared by the Federal-Provincial-Territorial Committee on Drinking Water and published by the Department of Health.
(3) Potable water for drinking must be available at all times for the use of every employee working on the vessel.

So there you are, you just have to know where to look.

As for where to start the rainmaker, I would assume that the Engineers aboard ship are quite competent enough to establish ground rules. (I know, to assume is to make an ass of u and me) I'd never start a flash distiller or ROD in Halifax Harbour or the Lakes, or within 20 miles seaward of the Cabot Strait. (all that industrial sewage streaming down the Gulf of St Lawrence! YUCK!) North Sea would be OK, it's flushed regularly, but I'd keep it shut down in the Med or Baltic. In the pacific, 20 miles from North America, 2 days away from Japan and China, 20 miles from India, avoiding the rivers, shut down in the PG, 10 miles from Africa, Australia and South America (again, avoid the rivers). As a general rule, at least 10 miles from shore and 20 from an estuary outflow.

In any case, make sure the sterilizer is working, whether it's UV or electroysis!
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

Brad
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Re: The Search for Regulation

Postby Brad » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:24 pm

Thanks for that JollyJack,

I found the MOSH regs as well, and I was a bit surprised not to see detailed requirements or guidelines a kin to the Norwegian or UK guidelines. Oh well,
Thanks again for the guidance

As for shipboard, yes we were pretty sticky about where and when.
On charter off India we made water via RO for one day, about 100 miles west of Mumbai, after the fourth set of 5 micron filters in 12 hrs (usually last up to 10 days in the Gulf of Mexico) it was knocked in the head. The switch was made to have charter supply bulk and bottled for consumption. Clearly we weren't the first vessel to stop making water as they agreed rather quickly. And yes the UV sterilizer was well looked after!!!


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