Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Going through the licensing process ? Have queries, comments, or do you need an answer to that obscure exam question ? This is the place to post.
electrotech
Tanktop Cleaner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:55 pm

Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby electrotech » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:36 pm

I'm a little fuzzy on regulations as they pertain to ships. It seems TC no longer has any certificate for Ship's Electrician/Electrical Officer. (They used to have an electrical endorsement exam & certificate of some kind, but that is gone).

That said, the BC Electrical Safety Regulation says nobody in BC shall work on electrical systems unless they have a provincially recognized certification:
http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws ... 4#section4

So does that apply to ships? Specifically, ships registered in BC and participate only in voyages within the province? For what its worth, WorksafeBC requires provincial first aid certification (ie. OFA level 1/2/3 etc.) on such ships despite the TC requirement for basic and advanced marine first aid.

Any ideas? References? I may need present some regulatory material to a certain employer... ;)

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby JollyJack » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:32 am

As things stand right now, there is no Canadian Certificate of Competence for an Electrician. That ceased to exist on 1 July 2007 when the Marine Personnel Regulations, empowered by the Canada Shipping Act 2001, came into effect. The STCW Manilla Amendments ressurected the Electrical Officer and added an "Able Seafarer, Electrical". As a signatory to the STCW Convention, Canada is obliged to amend Regulations to meet these Manilla Amendments. The new Marine Personnel Regulations are being drafted now. However, due to budgetary constraints, people to actually draft the new Regulations are in short supply. Be patient, they'll be Gazzeted eventually.

Incidentally, the Manilla Amendments include refresher courses in MEDs and an Examination on the English language.
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

User avatar
D Winsor
Superintendent
Posts: 325
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:23 am
Currently located: Dartmouth

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby D Winsor » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:32 am

This is another example of the never ending conflict of regulations between the Federal & Provincial governments with respect to qualification requirements for tradesmen such as electricians.
It is my understanding that where ships are federally regulated, provincial trade/labour rules and regulations do not apply and the provincial regulator has no enforcement authority unless there is an agreement between governments to allow enforcement of provincial rules on federally controlled work sites such as ships. So I don't understand how the BC Labour Regulator can force marine personnel on vessels operating or registered in BC to carry additional provincially approved certification not required by TC.
That being said most ships electricians I know are qualified as a journeyman or at least an apprentice in their province of residence. I am also sure if TC would somehow allow provincial regulations to prevail there would be the requirement for all vessels to carry electricians because many provinces do not reconise marine certifications and would not consider engineers qualified to operate or maintain electrical equipment. We would then be required to acquire and maintain trade provincial trade certifications for many of the jobs we currently do.
Troubleshooting 101 "Don't over think it - K.I.S.S. it"

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby JollyJack » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:13 am

Provincial qualifications come under the Provinces, as specified by the British North America Act of 1867, which became the Constitution Act of 1982. Division of Federal and Provincial responsibilities are described in sections 91 and 92 and "Thou shalt not tread on one anothers toes". Section 93 deals with education, which is a provincial responsibility and includes Trade qualifications. These apply only in the province of issue. There is an agreement between Provinces to recognize the "Red Seal" programme inter-provincially.

STCW standards are set by the International Maritime Organisation and apply world wide. TC deals with STCW, not Provincial standards. By the same token, Stationary, or Power Engineers are Provincially recognized. Some Provinces, Alberta for example, will recognize Marine qualifications and award Power Engineer certification accordingly, but some, like Nova Scotia, do not. My Marine Engineer 1st Class qualified me to write for 4th Class Stationary Engineer in NS, Alberta was going to give me 3rd Class and allow me to challenge 2nd Class. Ya pays yer money and ya takes your choice.

Certain trades have components of the Practical Skills for Marine Engineers required by STCW and these are credited toward PSME. Time at school to gain this PSME credit counts as Qualifying Service for 4th Class, up to a maximum of 12 months. This is all in the Marine Personnel Regulations, section 147.

Having said that, a shipowner can ask for whatever qualification he likes, TC only sets minimum standards. If, for example, BC Ferries demands a Provincial Electrician's ticket for a Lecky's job, they are quite entitled to do so. TC specifies MED and Seafarers Medical etc. Some ferries only require a Small Vessel Machinery Operator, but demand at least 4th Class. That's up to them.
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

JFC
Mechanic
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:00 pm

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby JFC » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:31 pm

Just for information, the last time that BCF recruited for a "Marine Electrician" they asked for several things;

- a minimum 5 years experience in a marine environment covering Safety, maintenance, troubleshooting, repairs of marine automation systems including power-generation, distrubution and diesel electric propulsion systems as well as alarm and monitoring, and
- a British Columbia inter-provincial TQ and additional diplomas such as power electronics, industrial automation, and PLC's., and
- progressive work experience with diesel electric and propulsion control systems.

The above works towards getting you short listed for an interview.

They interveiw candidates with a panel made up of someone from human resources, and their head of the electrical department and one of their First Class Engineers.

Cheers

:D

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby JollyJack » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:17 pm

Seems pretty thorough then. :)
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

electrotech
Tanktop Cleaner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:55 pm

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby electrotech » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:36 am

BCF is a provincially operated company. The ships only operate in BC waters. The electrical safety regulation says all work in BC must be performed by qualified persons (and lists who they deem qualified).

Isn't the TQ required then?

I'm concerned BCF is dropping the TQ requirement.

electrotech
Tanktop Cleaner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:55 pm

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby electrotech » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:32 pm

I got answers from the BC Safety Authority and WorksafeBC. Neither have jurisdiction. :(

So it boils down to a company/union issue... at least until 2017 when the new personnel regs are adopted.

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby JollyJack » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:31 am

I'd be interested to know where the 2017 date comes from for implementation of the new MPRs.
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

JFC
Mechanic
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:00 pm

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby JFC » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:04 am

BC Ferries does require a Provincial TQ - as I stated above. :D

electrotech
Tanktop Cleaner
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:55 pm

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby electrotech » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:23 pm

BC Ferries requires a TQ for a shore-based Electrician (i.e. DPM or FSU). The latest ship-board job posting for Electrical Officer did not require a TQ - just 1 year related experience.

Here is where I got the 2017 implementation dates:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/images/marine ... nglish.pdf
http://www.ics-shipping.org/quickguide.htm.pdf

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: Ship's Electrician qualifications....

Postby JollyJack » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:58 pm

The way I read it, 1 Jan 2017 is the date before which all states signatory to the STCW Convention will amend Regulations to comply with the Manila Amendments. From the ics site you referenced:

"The STCW amendments will begin to apply from 1 January 2012, when they enter into force. In particular, companies and crew will be required to comply with the new minimum STCW rest hour rules for seafarers.

Between now and January 2017, the other new requirements will be introduced by your maritime administration according to a transitional timetable."

The procedure in Canada is:...1st proposal of new Regulations reviewed for comments (done), second review (done), final draft (under way), new Regulations published in Canada Gazzette Part 1 for 30 days for public input. Input incorporated where relevant into Regulations. Final form of Regulations published in Canada Gazzette Part II for 30 days. Regulations then enter into force.

I'd expect the new Marine Personnel Regulations to enter into force some time in 2013 or early 2014.

Major impact on Engineers is block credit courses instead of Exams, refresher MEDs and Exams on English Language. There's an addition of Electrical Officers, too, and ratings will be "Able Seafarer, Deck or Engine or Electrical".
Discourage incest, ban country "music".


Return to “Training Room”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest