Steam license?

Going through the licensing process ? Have queries, comments, or do you need an answer to that obscure exam question ? This is the place to post.
Ratherbeonvacation
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Steam license?

Postby Ratherbeonvacation » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:44 pm

Can anyone tell me what is needed to write your steam tickets? Can you write a 4th class without having steam time? I am looking on the TC website but cant really find to much on it. If you have a 2nd class motor ticket can you challenge a 3rd class steam? Last but not least is Canada the only Country that has an actual different license for Steam and Motor. I am working with at least 10 different nationalities or people (Panama, Greek, Croatian, Russian, Ukraine, Polish, Italy, Spanish, Serbian, Norweigan, Swedish and Finnish, and even more) Who have a common license for all.

EvenKeel
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Re: Steam license?

Postby EvenKeel » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:44 pm

TP 2293, Chapter 33
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp ... u-3134.htm

Steam Certificate and Motor Certificate

33.4
2.For a Fourth-Class Steam with a Motor Certificate of a higher grade, an applicant shall have served on watch in the engine room of a steamship of not less than 225 kW propulsion power for not less than six months as an engineer or an engine-room assistant or engine-room rating.

Looks like you need 6 months on a steam propulsion vessel to write a 4th Class Steam.

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JollyJack
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Re: Steam license?

Postby JollyJack » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:48 pm

That's the old Crewing Regs which died on 1st July 2007 when the CSA 2001 came into force. Now, it's the Marine Personnel Regulations, section 147. For a steam ticket at 4th Class, you need 6 months on a steamship with a propulsion plant not less than 500Kw, included in the 36 months qualifying service for 4th Class. If you have a 4M, you need 6 months on a steamer, over 500Kw, then you do the EK Steam and Oral (Steam)

From http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... -2007-115/

Third-class Engineer, Motor Ship or Steamship (Note also you need MED D for Senior Officers before you can do 3rd Class)

146. (1) An applicant for a Third-class Engineer, Motor Ship or Steamship certificate who holds a Fourth-class Engineer certificate with STCW endorsement for the same type of vessel to which the certificate sought relates shall meet the requirements set out in column 1 of the table to this subsection and the corresponding specifications set out in column 2.

(3) An applicant for a Third-class Engineer, Steamship certificate who holds a First-class, Second-class or Third-class Engineer, Motor Ship certificate shall

(a) after obtaining a Fourth-class Engineer, Motor Ship or Steamship certificate, acquire at least 6 months of service as an engineer on one or more steamships that have a propulsive power of at least 500 kW; and

(b) pass a written and an oral examination to determine whether they have the engineering knowledge required by subparagraph 4(d)(ii) of the table to subsection (1).


147. (1) An applicant for a Fourth-class Engineer, Motor Ship or Steamship certificate shall meet the requirements set out in column 1 of the table to this subsection and the corresponding specifications set out in column 2.

TABLE
Item Column 1 Column 2
Requirements Specifications
1. Hold a certificate No certificate is required, but the requirements set out in subsections (3) and (4) apply to the establishment of equivalency between the certificate held and the certificate sought.

2. Experience

Either having successfully completed a 3-year approved cadet training program in marine engineering or having acquired at least 36 months of qualifying service comprising the following:

(a) at least 6 months as an engineer, engine-room rating or assistant engineer, performing the duties set out in subsection (2) in an engine room on one or more of the following vessels the main engines of which have a total power of at least 500 kW:

(i) a motor vessel, in the case of an applicant for a motor ship certificate, or

(ii) a steamship, in the case of an applicant for a steamship certificate;

(b) a credit of 6 months of qualifying service if the applicant submits the certificate referred to in subparagraph 3(f)(i); and

(c) any remaining time in any combination of the following types of service:

(i) up to 12 months of fitting, erecting or repairing machinery,

(ii) up to 6 months of metal turning,

(iii) up to 6 months of brass finishing,

(iv) up to 6 months of planing, slotting, shaping and milling,

(v) up to 3 months of welding,

(vi) up to 6 months in a drafting office as mechanical or electrical drafter engaged in arrangement, detail or design drawings,

(vii) up to 24 months as an engineer or assistant engineer on day work,

(viii) up to 6 months as an engineer, engine-room rating, assistant engineer or electrician during the fitting out, laying up or refitting of one or more vessels,

(ix) up to 24 months as the person responsible for operating pumps on one or more tankers,

(x) up to 24 months as an engine-room rating or assistant engineer performing watchkeeping duties in an engine room on board one or more towed barges or similar vessels, the boiler or boilers of which have a total heating surface of at least 92.9 m2,

(xi) up to 9 months as person responsible for operating tunnel machinery on one or more self-unloading bulk cargo ships,

(xii) up to 24 months as an electrician on one or more vessels that have a rated generator capacity of at least 300 kW,

(xiii) a credit of 12 months of service for successful completion of an approved training program in diesel engines,

(xiv) a credit of up to 3 months of service for each of the following courses that has been successfully completed, at an institution recognized by a provincial government or foreign administration:

(A) applied mechanics,

(B) thermodynamics,

(C) machine design,

(D) electrotechnology, and

(E) naval architecture, and

(xv) a credit of 12 months of service for successful completion, at an institution recognized by a provincial government or foreign administration, of a training program in mechanical or electrical engineering.
3. Certificates and other documents to be provided to the examiner

(a) MED with respect to STCW basic safety;

(b) MED training with respect to proficiency in survival craft and rescue boats other than fast rescue boats;

(c) MED in advanced fire fighting;

(d) marine advanced first aid;

(e) ship watchkeeping practices taught using a propulsive plant simulator; and

(f) for the sole purpose of obtaining a certificate with an STCW endorsement,

(i) practical skills for marine engineers, and

(ii) approved training record book for applicants for a Fourth-class Engineer certificate completed under the supervision of the vessel’s chief engineer.
4. Pass examinations

(a) An examination on ship watchkeeping practices using a propulsive plant simulator, after providing the certificate referred to in paragraph 3(e);

(b) after meeting the requirements of items 2 and 3 and paragraph (a), a written examination on general engineering knowledge at the fourth-class level;

(c) one of the following written examinations at the fourth-class level, after meeting the requirements of paragraph (b):

(i) in the case of an applicant for a Fourth-class Engineer, Motor Ship certificate, engineering knowledge of motor vessels, or

(ii) in the case of an applicant for a Fourth-class Engineer, Steamship certificate, engineering knowledge of steamships; and

(d) oral examination on the knowledge set out in paragraphs (a) to (c) and knowledge of the legislation relevant to the certificate sought, after passing the examination referred to in paragraph (c).

(2) The qualifying service set out in paragraph 2(a) of the table to subsection (1) shall include the following duties:

(a) preparing main machinery and auxiliary equipment for sea;

(b) shutting down main machinery;

(c) operating main machinery;

(d) preparing, starting, coupling and changing over alternators and generators;

(e) transferring fuel;

(f) preparing and operating evaporators and distillation plants;

(g) operating oily water separators and conducting appropriate tests to ensure the correct operation of those separators;

(h) preparing and operating air compressors;

(i) preparing and starting steering gear and conducting appropriate tests to ensure the correct operation of the steering gear;

(j) testing boiler water-level gauges under normal working conditions;

(k) operating boilers, including the combustion system;

(l) transferring ballast and fresh water;

(m) lubricating machinery;

(n) pumping bilges;

(o) taking machinery readings and compiling the data in the engine-room log books; and

(p) acting as assistant to the engineer in charge of the engineering watch.

(3) An applicant for a Fourth-class Engineer, Motor Ship certificate who holds a First-class, Second-class, Third-class or Fourth-class Engineer, Steamship certificate shall

(a) after obtaining a Fourth-class Engineer, Steamship certificate, acquire at least 6 months of service as an engineer on one or more motor vessels that have a propulsive power of at least 500 kW, other than stationary MOUs; and

(b) pass a written and an oral examination to determine whether they have the engineering knowledge required by subparagraph 4(c)(i) of the table to subsection (1).

(4) An applicant for a Fourth-class Engineer, Steamship certificate who holds a First-class, Second-class, Third-class or Fourth-class Engineer, Motor Ship certificate shall

(a) after obtaining a Fourth-class Engineer, Motor Ship certificate, acquire at least 6 months of service as an engineer on one or more steamships that have a propulsive power of at least 500 kW; and

(b) pass a written and an oral examination to determine whether they have the engineering knowledge required by subparagraph 4(c)(ii) of the table to subsection (1).


Yeah, I know it's a lot of info, but if you ask me the time, I'll tell you how a watch works, it's an "Engineer" thing. :)
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EvenKeel
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Re: Steam license?

Postby EvenKeel » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:54 am

Ahhhh. Missed that word "Archive". Sorry about that.

However, it looks like the only major change is that it went from 225 kW to 500 kW. Still need those 6 months which won't be easy.

The Algoma Montrealais is the last Canadian laker that is steam as far as I know after the Quebecois went to the scrapyard this week.

Then there is this vessel but I don't know what her power is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Segwun

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JK
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Re: Steam license?

Postby JK » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:17 pm

Probably not high enough power to make it count.

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JollyJack
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Re: Steam license?

Postby JollyJack » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:49 pm

nah, less than half

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/4/v ... ails/92443

She's only 225 bhp, or 167 Kw, and a mere 307 GRT, quite small for a passy boat.
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Big Pete
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Re: Steam license?

Postby Big Pete » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:28 am

Have to go Foreign on a Gas Tanker, they are about the only steamers around these days.

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JK
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Re: Steam license?

Postby JK » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:09 am

I think you posted a link to a secure site JollyJack.
Pretty steamer from the distance shots, wonder what she is like close up. A friend sent me a video of the SS Master, the recip pumps were like music to the ears!

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JollyJack
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Re: Steam license?

Postby JollyJack » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:27 pm

nope, google it, it's public domain

"vessel registration query transport canada" in Google's search bar
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