2nd Class Orals

Going through the licensing process ? Have queries, comments, or do you need an answer to that obscure exam question ? This is the place to post.
Ratherbeonvacation
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2nd Class Orals

Postby Ratherbeonvacation » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:53 pm

Hello Again everyone

First of all I would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Make the best of it (especially those at sea, such as myself).

I am preparing to try and finish up my 2nd class first thing in the New Year. Any Hints/Tips on the orals. Any common questions floating around?? Thanks

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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JK » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:49 am

Been awhile for me, but what you don't answer or answered not as well in the general, motor exams, read up on. So that means as soon as you get out, write all the questions down.
Safety.
In the 2nds answer as the 2nd not the watchkeeper.

Good luck and a Merry Christmas for you.

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JollyJack
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JollyJack » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:37 pm

As the Examiner said to me on my Orals, "I will administer an oral examination on general engineering knowledge. General engineering knowledge is everything you know about engineering. Well? What do you know?"
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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JK » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:45 pm

What do you know?"


when I wrote my 2nd combined, I knew a fair bit about a limited amount of things.
When I wrote my 1sts, I knew less about those limited number of things but more about managing those things. Then I went on to know more about managing large events while doing shore technical support and less about operational things.
Now I know a little bit about a whole lot of things and knowing less about more every day.
It is a race to see if I retire first or know nothing about everything.

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JollyJack
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JollyJack » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:40 pm

I guess the thrust of it is, are you competent enough to control and run a ship's mechanical gardens, keep it maintained and keep the crew safe? Do you KNOW the plant and can you teach that to Juniors? From whom to you take advice? From whom to you take direction, and will you listen to it? How good of a leader are you, respected, feared, or even disdained? The 2nd runs things, sometimes, he's the chief (up to 3000 Kw, which covers most of Canada's domestic fleet) Be judged accordingly (and you ARE judged!) The Oral is the last one for 2/E, 5 theory exams, 2 written EK Exams, a PPS2 Exam, 4 MEDs, a MAFA and now, the Oral.

Your knowledge is being assessed, but at the Oral level, you've proved that, by passing all these Exams, you know your stuff. The Examiner will. more than likely, probe the subjects in which you were weak. That's because some guys forget things in the time-restricted pressure of a written exam. An Oral is more relaxed, time is not an issue. I've seen guys freeze up, so he goes for a coffee. Some guys get so tied up he comes back next day. When the Examiner signs that Cerificate, he, or she, has to be certain that you won't hurt anyone and that you have the knowledge to do the job safely and effectively.

Something to keep in mind, when you do walk out of the office with that Certificate of Competence, 2nd Class, you will START to learn. It's not just another piece of paper, it's a different perspective on live at sea. Who knows? You might end up with TCMS as a Marine Inspector or Engineering Examiner. There are currently 36 vacancies on the website.

tip for the exam. The Examiner has had much more experience dishing out bullshit than you have, don't try to bullshit a bullshitter.
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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JK » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:23 pm

Nice post Jolly Jack.
There are engineers out there who never got some of your points, they didn't read that manual-how to manage.

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JollyJack
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JollyJack » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:11 pm

some, unfortunately. never will, they will develop a "God" complex and think they know it all. They can be dangerous, it's that kind of guy or gal who gets people killed. Fortunately, they are not too hard to spot in small room with a great view of the harbour, one on one with the Examiner for a couple of hours, or 3, or 4, or a day or so. As I said, there's no time limit on an Oral exam. Sometimes you shoot the shit and tell sea stories about cracked liners, or lost propellers, times when your nether orifice vibrated, how you dealt with high boiler salinity or a hull crack, just what do you do when it's blowing a force 9 nor'easter, halfway between Boston and Come By Chance and the seabay vent pipe lets go on the seabay. You get cold and wet, for one, but what do you do?

How do you keep the plant running and look after the Crew? What do you do in an engine room fire? How many fire parties are you prepared to kill when you send them in to squirt water all over the place? How much water damage is acceptable on electronic terminal boxes? How many kilometers of wire are you prepared to lose on the deckhead trays by melting them? How do you knock the fire down? How do you LEAD. That ability doesn't come with the gold stripes or because your uncle's brother in law owns the Company. It comes with Knowledge and experience, THAT'S what is looked for, can you handle it and keep your crew safe and happy? Or will you say 'SHORE LEAVE IS CANCELLED UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES" (Yes, I've seen that notice posted on the gangway, made perfect sense to the ship's Master.)

Do you know part II of the Canada Labour Code and the MOSH regulations? I can tell you that every Examiner appointed by the Minister of Transport is a Health and Safety Officer appointed by the Minister of Labour.

Bed safe and have a happy new year :) 3 years left before STCW 2010 (Manilla Amendments) come into force, 1 Jan 2017. having fun yet? :)
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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JK » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:48 pm

some, unfortunately. never will, they will develop a "God" complex and think they know it all

and you know, these guys will never be able to reach out for other opinions or for information. They won't be able to call a friend, and get walked through the answer step by step. They are the guys who will never give help or information freely, but will clutch it to their chest because information is power.
It is very apparent, very quickly, on a ship or in a company who is like that.

What I have learned over the years is if you freely share what you know, it comes back threefold and you will also find out where you are wrong or have made an assumption that is incorrect.

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Big Pete
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby Big Pete » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:31 pm

Happy New Year JK and everyone else.
JK, I think you just defined the purpose of the website!!
I have also found that the people who know the least are the ones who will not share what knowledge they have, or ask questions.
Fortunatly there are plenty of people on this site who are willing to share their knowledge, and hopefully we can encourage more people to do so.
Big Pete
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JK » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:48 am

Not sure what Class defines shipping as one of the top ten dangerous jobs, but I think this pretty well sums up what Jolly Jack has been saying:


"According to a classification, shipping jobs or working at sea has been classified as one of the ten most dangerous jobs in the world. Although as an outsider it might sound surprising (Considering how people think it as a “glamorous” job), ask a seaman and he would enumerate various difficulties attached with the job. Careful examination of the prospective hazards make one realize that this job is not for the weak hearted, those who get homesick easily, or those who find difficult to work in harsh environment.

In every kind of profession there are a variety of professional hazards to deal with and people’s suitability to any particular job is tested on the basis of their response to these hazards. In the same manner, there are ways to deal with the professional problems faced on ships and one shouldn’t be discouraged to take up an exciting and rewarding career in merchant navy.

Strict physical fitness is of utmost importance as any kind of shipping job is quite enduring and the hardships that one usually faces cannot be coped without a health condition that borders impeccability.

Ships are always in a state of motion be it the usual swaying movement or heavy rolling or pitching. This constant motion leads many to motion sickness which is not a very simple issue to deal with, even for those with the best sea legs.

Sea voyages expose the ship’s crew to extreme temperature and weather conditions especially during long journeys spanning many countries or continents. Such long voyages take the ships to the bitter cold of Alaska or Scandinavia and also to the hot and humid conditions of the tropical region or the Persian Gulf. A seafarer working on ship should be fit enough to face any kind of weather and work in any kind of environment.

Accidents tend to occur frequently on ships and are a part and parcel of shipping jobs. The most frequent ones are often related to people falling into the sea, falling onto the deck, in the engine room, or from any of the ship structures while working. Moreover, there are large numbers of mechanical and electrical equipment on the ships deck and the engine room and they have to be used very carefully. With advancement of technology, ships now have a several machinery systems and tools on board. Seafarers are thus required to deal with such complex and hazardous machinery on a daily basis.

The physical health of the seaman is at risk all the time because of the extreme toiling conditions. Long and continuous exposure to direct sunlight or harsh weather while working on the deck or extremely high temperature and noisy environment in the engine room can lead to health complications. Long and close exposure to ultra violet radiation from the ship’s radar and radio have also been noted as one of the reasons for health problems in the past. On some ships, the inner cabins and living quarters of the ships are not very airy and ventilated. They are at times noisy and hot, which is a perfect condition for the growth of germs and only a truly healthy man with a perfect immune system can face it.

Although shipping companies take all the care possible for their crew and provides them with the best of what is available, it is the condition of the sea, the harsh and ever- changing weather, and continuous working hours,which make shipping jobs difficult.

A shipping job also attracts many psychological problems for those who can’t keep up with the hectic scheduling and the lifestyles. Adding to them are professional politics and conflicts that arise between seafarers that make living on board ships more difficult.

Working on ships is difficult but not impossible. Through there are several factors that leads to physical and psychological stress among seafarers , people working on ships must take the right attitude to break monotony and improve interpersonal relationships on ships and work towards keeping their mind and body fit."

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JollyJack
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JollyJack » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:45 pm

I'm guessing that the author's first language is not English and that he has never actually worked on a ship, evidenced by the statement:

"Accidents tend to occur frequently on ships and are a part and parcel of shipping jobs. The most frequent ones are often related to people falling into the sea."

Most probably, he or she works in an office somewhere and regards seafarers as "disposable", as most office types do. Accidents are not "frequent" and the only time I've heard of anyone going overboard at sea in 40-some years, was of an unpopular Chief who presumably went for a swim one night mid-Pacific. Accidents are most definitely NOT "part and parcel of shipping jobs."

However, it is entertaining :)
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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JK » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:47 am

no idea of it's provenance, I just across it on the 'net.
I have been thrown across a space more then once in rough weather. Thank heavens for youth and resilience LOL

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JollyJack
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JollyJack » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:14 pm

and then thrown again? :) More than once? "Secure for heavy weather" means you too. 48 hours in a Cat 4 hurricane kinda shows you what to do. (Hurricane Fifi, 1974)

HANG ON AND PRAY!
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EvenKeel
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby EvenKeel » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:15 pm

Had my 2nd Class Orals a few weeks ago and the inspector went through the syllabus for 2nd Class Motor (2ORM) from section 27.12 of TP2293. Step by step, I was asked a question pertaining to each topic.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp ... 27-480.htm

Some that I remember:

- Your vessel is departing for a long voyage. What inventory and fluids do you have to ensure you have aboard and talk about other preparations.
- Describe the safety procedures for bunkering your vessel.
- Trace a ground fault and describe your safety procedures before repair attempt on damaged motor.
- Talk about precautions for releasing CO2 and how long you would wait for re-entry into space.
- Talk about the planned maintenance program aboard your vessel and how you run it.
- What do you know about AMPS - the TC administrative monetary penalty system for seafarer violations such as pollution
- What are the 2nd engineer's duties for emergencies aboard your vessel?

The exam took about an hour and a half and was concentrated mainly on regulations both international and Canadian. Know what regs are IMO (SOLAS, STCW, MARPOL) and know what falls under the Canada Shipping Act related to engineering (Marine Machinery Inspection, Steering Appliances and Equipment, Safe Working Practices, Oil and Sewage Pollution Prevention, etc.)

Know general info about the Canada Labour Code Part 2 and MOSH and the 3 rights of an employee - to know, to participate and to refuse - and how they apply aboard a ship when the Captain has the ultimate responsibility at sea. Remember that safety control over the marine industry in Canada is under federal authority, not provincial like some other industries.

There were also questions about Port State Control and Flag State Control and what the differences were. The inspector asked if I knew what powers that TCMS has to detain foreign vessels for health and safety violations.

Felt much better leaving this exam than my 3rd class. Lapping injector nozzles didn't even come up once...

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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Postby JK » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:40 am

Congratulations! I am sure you passed with flying colours.


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