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Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:05 am
by EvenKeel
Thank you JK. Makes the hours in the basement seem worthwhile!

Now on to 1st Class Thermo. I have my Applied Mechanics so 3 Part A's left. Hoping to write those while gathering the sea time for the Part B's.

Question for Jolly Jack:

I have Reed's Applied Heat and also all of my notes from school - also the questions/answers from the library on this site. Someone also gave me an official looking list of recommended textbooks for the 1rst Class exams and for Thermo they include:

1. Heat Engines and Applied Heat, Metcalfe
2. Applied Thermodynamics for Engineering Technologists, Eastop and McConkey
3. Engineering Thermodynamics - Work and Heat Transfer, Rogers and Mayhew
4. Fundamentals of Classical Thermodynamics, Van Wylen and Sonntag
5. Thermodynamic and Heat Power for Engineers and Technicians, Granet
6. Basic Thermodynamics, Strotzki
7. Thermodynamic and Transport Properties of Fluids, Rogers and Mayhew

Are any of these worth picking up more than others to try and re-learn some of the theory? They are available used on Amazon and Ebay pretty cheap. I have a copy of steam tables.

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:33 pm
by Ratherbeonvacation
Great Posts. Congrats EVENKEEL On completing your 2nd class. If you guys think of anything else that came up or could come up on your 2nd class orals let me know. Still have a month before I am back home to try mine!!!

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:45 pm
by JK
The old guys shooting the breeze waiting to hear how you made out LOL.

I wrote my 2nds so long ago it was chiseling answers on a tablet.
What I distinctly remember is getting asked the last question in the orals and drawing a blank. The examiner said in his broad scottish accent, I know you know this, which ensured that I wouldn't. He end up telling me the answer and laughed at me because I did know the answer and was quite embarrassed . Most important though, he passed me.

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:48 pm
by Ratherbeonvacation
Hey guys

Few more questions if anyone could comment or give me a little insite.

1. difference between a void space and an enclosed space
2. Your ship has grounded. describe the steps to repair
3. Pipe from ships side breaks (between ships side and valve). eg cooling water discharge. what to do
4. deep sea and you discover a hole in a ballast tank. what to do
5. where are cofferdams required by law?
6. Preps for overseas voyage? (Is there a rule for a 3% fuel margin? or 3 days? I cant seem to find that)

Thanks as always and look forward to seeing some replies and discussion.

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:05 am
by D Winsor
I will attempt to answer some of your questions.

The difference between a void space and an enclosed space is that the enclosed space is usually completely water tight whereas a void space can be partially sealed, readily accessible and is not necessarily water tight. Both however are considered "Confined Spaces" and should be treated as such.

Cofferdams are required in to protect specialized oil tank such as engine sumps and CP sumps located in double bottom tanks. Cofferdams are also sometimes found between sea bays and ballast tanks so to prevent the transfer from the sea bay into a ballast tank in the event of damage and to provide a protected conduit for ballast lines from the manifold

With respect to a leak in a ballast tank, how it is handled depends if the ship is loaded or in ballast.
If the vessel is in ballast the water level in the affected tank will drop to sea level listing the vessel slightly. It will be possible to right the vessel and continue to the next port by strategically dropping the water level in tanks on the opposite side while monitoring the hull stresses.
If the vessel is loaded and the ingress of water is relatively low it may be possible to enter the tank and seal the tank with wooden wedges and a cement box
If the water ingress is too great for the ballast pumps to control it may be necessary to allow the tank to flood to sea level and again strategically flood ballast tanks on the opposite side to reduce the stresses on the hull. The Vessel's loading computer and stability book will have all the information on how and where to correct the condition caused by the leak to reduce the hull stresses. It may be necessary to reduce the vessel speed to reduce hull stresses.
Upon arrival at a port the repair would be the same which involves a diver going down to seal the hole with a mat or some other material, pumping the tank out and sealing the hole with a cement box. Any such repair will have to be monitored by class

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:59 pm
by JK
For the leaking ovbd line you have to strip away all the bulkead insulation in that area and wrap the pipe with anything that will slow the leak or stop it . Rubber with pipe clamps, pipe wrap that has the catalyst in it that would harden ect. Then you build a cement box and encase it it cement. I have posted pictures in the below topic. ... 1ffc52d738

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:57 pm
by Ratherbeonvacation
Thanks again guys.

Any takers on the other 2.

Preps for an overseas or long voyage? (what is the safety margine for fuel?) critical spares, extra l/o etc?

Steps to take in case of a grouding?

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:07 am
by JK
a grounding is pretty straight forward if you think about what you have to look for:

continued flooding
power requirements.
structural integrity
what happens if the ship floats on the tide, will it be stable?
bunkers or cargo leaking
engine alignment

just work your way through logically.

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:20 am
by Ratherbeonvacation
Thanks JK

anyone else have anything to add/comment? What about steps to repair?

What about the last one. Preps for an overseas or long voyage? (what is the safety margine for fuel?) critical spares, extra l/o etc?

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:17 pm
by D Winsor
I would add to JK's list a set of crank shaft deflections on the Main Engine and a check of the backlash on the Main Gear Box if fitted especially if the ship was grounded under the Main Engine and or Gear Box

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:08 pm
by JK
A ship will float on the tanktops if they are in good shape.
For repair, you have to ensure you have no tanks flooding, then you can survey damages. You are looking for tripped brackets, longitudinals, floors and set in in the plating.everything is measured and marked for cropping. Mark a copy of the ship drawings or list the damage by tank, fram and distance from center or longitudinal. Last ship grounding I dealt with, we knew pretty well all the damage prior to docking, we only missed one plate forward as it was inaccessible to view from inside. That ship was creased from the forefoot to the skeg where they had run across a shoal.
If the hull is significantly damaged, then docking gets much more tricky as alternate blocking locations must be determined to support the hull adequately.
I only deal with ships with a very strong mid-body section, so this is directed more towards them.
Container ships and tankers and bulkers would present their own issues with possible cracking.
Anyone else please jump in!

Re: 2nd Class Orals

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:23 pm
by JollyJack
" Remember that safety control over the marine industry in Canada is under federal authority, not provincial like some other industries."

Not entirely true. The BNA Act of 1867, which became the Constitution Act of 1982, defines Federal and Provincial authority. If a vessel operates entirely within a province, the Canada Labour code, from whence we get MOSH Regulations, does not apply, the Provincial Labour Code does. eg, a ferry operating entirely within a province comes under that Province's authority for safety matters, while an interprovincial ferry, eg, NS to NL, is Federal.

Sections 91 and 92 are here: ... ml#docCont

evenkeel, Reeds is fine, no need for the rest.

A "confined space" is defined in the MOSH Regulations as:

“confined space”

“confined space” means an enclosed or partially enclosed space that

(a) is not designed or intended for human occupancy, except for the purpose of performing work;

(b) has restricted means of access and egress; and

(c) may become hazardous to any person entering it owing to

(i) its design, construction, location or atmosphere,

(ii) the materials or substances in it, or

(iii) any other conditions relating to it. (espace clos)

from ... 1.html#h-2