Page 1 of 1

Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 4:35 am
by JK

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:53 pm
by Revolver
Seems basic for sure, and yes, for new engineers (like myself) it is important to be diligent.
Though I must say, and maybe it's because I'm new and full of gusto, that doing a thorough round and knowing each parameter in the engine room (and knowing the normal operating parameters well enough to differentiate between normal and not normal) is very satisfying.

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:05 pm
by JollyJack
Watch for trends in the log, temperatures rising, pressures falling etc over a period of days, great for catching major events before they happen. (It's also part of the PPS 2 exams) :)

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:43 am
by Revolver
Thanks for that little note, store that in the mental file cabinet. After all, only ~450 more sea days until it's time to write my 2nds, so the count down to PPS 2 and that is on heh

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:53 pm
by JollyJack
If you want to sail as Chief with STCW III/3 (3rd class) you'll need PPS 2 anyway.

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:13 pm
by Revolver
I must admit, at this point I don't have the desire to sail as chief when I have my 3rds (at this point, who knows in a years time heh); however when I get some spare time and find a spare $1600 I will try to knock out the PPS 2 - that never expires, correct?

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:13 am
by JollyJack
Renewal of an Engineering Certificate is covered in section 107 of the MPR, vis:

107. (1) An applicant for the renewal of an Engineer certificate referred to in any of paragraphs 100(u) to (dd), (ccc) and (ddd) shall meet one of the following requirements:

(a) acquire the service set out in subsection (3); OR (my italics)

(b) provide the examiner with a training testimonial indicating that they have successfully completed, within the 5 years before the application date for renewal, a refresher training course in marine emergency duties at the level applicable to the certificate sought, pass within that same period a written or oral examination on general engineering knowledge and at any time, have successfully completed a course in propulsive plant simulation at the level applicable to the certificate sought; or

(c) provide the examiner with a training testimonial indicating that they have successfully completed, within the 5 years before the application date for renewal, a refresher training course in marine emergency duties at the level applicable to the certificate sought, have successfully completed at any time a course in propulsive plant simulation at the level applicable to the certificate sought and, in addition, have successfully completed within the 5 years before the application date for renewal, a training course in

(i) automation, control and instrumentation, or

(ii) marine power systems.

(2) An applicant referred to in subsection (1), other than an applicant for the renewal of the certificate referred to in paragraph 100(dd), who has acquired at least three years of service on board a specific vessel or a sister vessel, within the 5 years before the application date for renewal of the certificate, is not required to provide a training certificate in propulsive plant simulation, but, without providing that training certificate, the applicant’s renewed certificate is restricted to that vessel or sister vessel and the areas in which that vessel or sister vessel operated during that period of service.

(3) An applicant who chooses to meet the requirements of paragraph (1)(a) shall acquire the following service:

(a) at least 12 months of sea service as an engineer officer on one or more vessels within the 5 years before the application date for renewal of the certificate;

(b) at least 3 months of sea service as an engineer officer on one or more vessels within the 12 months before the application date for renewal of the certificate;

(c) at least 24 months of service, within the 5 years before the application date for renewal of the certificate, performing functions in any of the following marine-related positions:

(i) marine engineer superintendent or operating engineer manager, while employed by an authorized representative,

(ii) marine surveyor or marine inspector performing duties relating to the survey or inspection of vessels or vessel’s machinery, equipment or cargoes,

(iii) instructor or training officer in marine engineering subjects, while employed at a recognized institution or by an authorized representative,

(iv) examiner of engineers,

(v) casualty investigator engaged in investigating marine casualties,

(vi) person engaged in marine emergency response planning or vessel’s operations, or

(vii) an officer or representative of a trade union as defined in the Canada Labour Code whose duties include

(A) involvement in marine casualty investigations,

(B) liaising with or providing assistance to government bodies such as the Department of Transport and the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, and

(C) participating in the development of policy with respect to the training of ship’s officers; or

(d) an equivalent prorated combination of the requirements set out in paragraphs (a) to (c).

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:21 am
by JollyJack
That is from the Book of Words the tome which regulates our lives. Note that it says, first off,

"107. (1) An applicant for the renewal of an Engineer certificate referred to in any of paragraphs 100(u) to (dd), (ccc) and (ddd) shall meet one of the following requirements:

(a) acquire the service set out in subsection (3);"

and section 3 says:

(3) An applicant who chooses to meet the requirements of paragraph (1)(a) shall acquire the following service:

(a) at least 12 months of sea service as an engineer officer on one or more vessels within the 5 years before the application date for renewal of the certificate;

(b) at least 3 months of sea service as an engineer officer on one or more vessels within the 12 months before the application date for renewal of the certificate;

(c) at least 24 months of service, within the 5 years before the application date for renewal of the certificate, performing functions in any of the following marine-related positions:

(i) marine engineer superintendent or operating engineer manager, while employed by an authorized representative,

(ii) marine surveyor or marine inspector performing duties relating to the survey or inspection of vessels or vessel’s machinery, equipment or cargoes,

(iii) instructor or training officer in marine engineering subjects, while employed at a recognized institution or by an authorized representative,

(iv) examiner of engineers,

(v) casualty investigator engaged in investigating marine casualties,

(vi) person engaged in marine emergency response planning or vessel’s operations, or

(vii) an officer or representative of a trade union as defined in the Canada Labour Code whose duties include

(A) involvement in marine casualty investigations,

(B) liaising with or providing assistance to government bodies such as the Department of Transport and the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, and

(C) participating in the development of policy with respect to the training of ship’s officers; or

(d) an equivalent prorated combination of the requirements set out in paragraphs (a) to (c).

I read it as with 3 month's sea time in the past 12, or 12 months in the past 5 years, all you need is a valid medical and off you go. BUT!

If you have been ashore for 5 years with an expired CoC, or you have insufficient time, you'll need to do a refresher in MED and PPS. You'll be asked to do an EKG Exam at your renewal level, too.

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:30 am
by JollyJack
Couple of salient points here for 3rd Engineers. You need 6 months IN CHARGE OF THE WATCH plus 6 months to challenge 3rd Class.

Time as an ERR goes toward 3rd Class at the rate of 1 day in 3, but this time does NOT count toward renewals because it's not "sea service as an engineer officer on one or more vessels ".

So if you're on a ferry as Junior Engineer, only 6 months of that counts for upgrading, you need 6 months IN CHARGE OF A WATCH.

If you're putting in time as an oiler, you'll need 18 months sea time to get 6 months qualifying service, and this time does NOT COUNT for renewal of Certificates, only for 3rd Class.

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:42 am
by Revolver
Yeah, that is a whole lot of wordy sentences.
Currently I'm working as an officer of the watch, and plan to remain doing so for a number of years - so 3a is most applicable it seems. The italics you included helped for my skimming purposes, thank you.

So, for example, my friend who is working on a drill rig (DP2) as an oiler is only getting 1 sea day for every 3 days worked?
He's making about 90k/year at 3 weeks on/3 weeks off...so he'll be fine, but he is one of the few I graduated with that I'm sure will be able to move up his tickets.

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:18 pm
by JollyJack
If your friend has 4th Class, going for 3rd working as an oiler, he'll get a maximum of 6 months qualifying service, but it will take him 18 months of sea service to get it. (1 day in 3) He still needs an additional 6 months in charge of a watch to get 3rd Class, STCW III/3

He will not be able to renew his 4th Class either, he's not working as an Engineer. For you, 3 (a) and (b) are applicable, 12 months in the past 5 years or 3 months in the last year.

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:30 pm
by camshaft
JollyJack wrote:That is from the Book of Words the tome which regulates our lives. Note that it says, first off,

"107. (1) An applicant for the renewal of an Engineer certificate referred to in any of paragraphs 100(u) to (dd), (ccc) and (ddd) shall meet one of the following requirements:

(a) acquire the service set out in subsection (3);"

and section 3 says:

(3) An applicant who chooses to meet the requirements of paragraph (1)(a) shall acquire the following service:

(a) at least 12 months of sea service as an engineer officer on one or more vessels within the 5 years before the application date for renewal of the certificate;

(b) at least 3 months of sea service as an engineer officer on one or more vessels within the 12 months before the application date for renewal of the certificate;

(c) at least 24 months of service, within the 5 years before the application date for renewal of the certificate, performing functions in any of the following marine-related positions:

(i) marine engineer superintendent or operating engineer manager, while employed by an authorized representative,

(ii) marine surveyor or marine inspector performing duties relating to the survey or inspection of vessels or vessel’s machinery, equipment or cargoes,

(iii) instructor or training officer in marine engineering subjects, while employed at a recognized institution or by an authorized representative,

(iv) examiner of engineers,

(v) casualty investigator engaged in investigating marine casualties,

(vi) person engaged in marine emergency response planning or vessel’s operations, or

(vii) an officer or representative of a trade union as defined in the Canada Labour Code whose duties include

(A) involvement in marine casualty investigations,

(B) liaising with or providing assistance to government bodies such as the Department of Transport and the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, and

(C) participating in the development of policy with respect to the training of ship’s officers; or

(d) an equivalent prorated combination of the requirements set out in paragraphs (a) to (c).

I read it as with 3 month's sea time in the past 12, or 12 months in the past 5 years, all you need is a valid medical and off you go. BUT!

If you have been ashore for 5 years with an expired CoC, or you have insufficient time, you'll need to do a refresher in MED and PPS. You'll be asked to do an EKG Exam at your renewal level, too.


Any thoughts, ideas, experience on sec (3) (d) "an equivalent prorated combination of the requirements set out in paragraphs (a) to (c)."
What it means and how is it to be applied/calculated?

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:40 pm
by JollyJack
Sea service has to meet the standard set. eg if you have 90 days, or 1.5 months in the previous 12 months, you will need a further 6 months in the 4 years before that. If you have 6 months at sea in the previous 5 years, then came ashore as a Super, etc, you'd need 12 months in that position to meet the requirement.

Re: Filling out the ER Log

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:14 am
by camshaft
Ok thx JJ, that makes sense to me. If you have 50% of the requirement of (b) (1.5 months in the last 12) you would need say 50% of (a) (6 months in the 4 yrs before that). Or some combination like that.