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TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:53 pm
by alangdon17
Just curious if anyone has a digital copy of the transport canada log book for applicants for fourth class older then 2015. On the tc website, you can only get the 2015 one but if anyone has a older one they could send to me would be greatly appreciated

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:31 pm
by Revolver
By log books do you mean like... Sea training manuals cadets do during their sea phases?

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:43 am
by JollyJack
The 2015 one is the approved version. Colleges might have their own version, as long as they contain what's in that TP, hey are accepted. EG Memorial has 3 large volumes, one for each sea phase, and are quite comprehensive.

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:44 am
by alangdon17
Revolver wrote:By log books do you mean like... Sea training manuals cadets do during their sea phases?


No, for applicants of the fourth class, transport canada put out these training record books for applicants of fourth class. when you do this book you get a credit of sea time along with practical skills for marine engineers. I will post a link of one below. I was looking for older versions, the only one trasport canada allows you to get is the 2015 one, I was hoping someone would have a older version of this somewhere poked away on their computer.

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:17 am
by Revolver
How much sea time would one be credited upon completion of this log book?

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:36 pm
by JollyJack
None, it's required, along with skills training, for STCW certification. If you want domestic, non-STCW certification, you don't need it.

Marine Personnel Regulations, section 147.

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:02 pm
by Revolver
I went through Memorial, so my sea time + 3 very long training manuals and the program took care of my sea time.
I didn't do the log book being talked about apparently, so I'm out of the loop on that one hah

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:34 pm
by JollyJack
4th Class requires 36 months of qualifying service, 6 of which must be at sea as part of the Engine Room watch. The 6 months are covered by Memorial, and all other Colleges, as part of their approved Cadet programmes. During College time, Skills Training and Record Book for STCW Certification and PPS1, are also covered, that's why you get to challenge 4th Class exams.

You have 90 days from Convocation to challenge 1st Class theory exams, too. I suggest you take the opportunity, what do you have to lose? If you pass, it will save you several thousands of $$$ taking block credit courses later. If you fail, well, at least you tried, you've lost nothing.

The other, alternate path, needs 36 months too, 6 of which must be at sea. Skills Training was a 1 year course which includes the TC Record Book. This course is generally not offered, schools can make much more money from Cadet programmes. They offer Skills courses, covering Electricity, Machining and Welding (required in STCW) as block credits for several thousand $$$. Required MEDs are offered too, at several thousand $$$ each, so you can see why the one year course is not offered now, it covered all these topics and included PPS1. Much more profitable to split it up and charge by the topic instead of by the course.

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:53 pm
by Revolver
Interesting, I never knew the details of the other path - never needed to.
The Memorial 4 year program was good.

Unfortunately right after convocation I went to work for 3 months so I missed out on challenging my chiefs. I'm not too worried about them though, and I won't be spending any money on block credit courses to re teach me - I kept my books and tests.

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:59 am
by D Winsor
Revolver wrote:Interesting, I never knew the details of the other path - never needed to.
The Memorial 4 year program was good.

Unfortunately right after convocation I went to work for 3 months so I missed out on challenging my chiefs. I'm not too worried about them though, and I won't be spending any money on block credit courses to re teach me - I kept my books and tests.


Even though I was lucky enough the carry an exemption for my 1st. class right from the time of graduation from the CCGC and I still had my notes for my EK's. I found it necessary to return to school before writing, if for no other reason, to practice putting pen or pencil to paper and hone my time management skills when it comes to answering questions with as much information as possible in the time allotted. I found that even though I had only been using computers, by comparison to the way thing are today, for a short time. I found that my hand writing skills, that weren't good in the first place, had gotten even worse.

I am also sure "JJ" would agree that there is nothing worse than, when trying to review or correct an exam, to read bad hand writing. :?

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:25 am
by Big Pete
Hi Revolver,

I agree with D Winsor about the value of having a "refresher" at college to bring you up to speed, technology is changing daily and much of what you learn as a Cadet will be obsolete by the time you sit your Chiefs, unless you have been sailing on the latest ships or keeping up to date through Professional Marine Engineering Web sites you could find yourself struggling. The practical skills of handwriting, using a calculator and time management also need honing and for Chiefs you will be expected to have a much deeper level of understanding than for the lower tickets, and they can throw anything at you in the orals!!!
You might have spent your entire seagoing career on an articulated tug on the Lakes,(for example) and the examiner might ask you about dry docking a Diesel Electric passenger ship with Azipods or operational questions about Large OBOs or COW systems.
Following a properly structured course of Study/ Revision can be a great help.

Good Luck when you get there.

BP

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:25 am
by JK
I had my exemptions to 1st as well. I kept all of my notes. When I wrote my 1st I had been ashore doing technical support for a couple of years and it actually made writing easier because mentally I had made a shift to managerial outlook on the questions.

Re: TC 4th class Log Book

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:40 pm
by JollyJack
The handwriting must be "understandable", there is no deduction for terrible grammar, poor punctuation or bad spelling. (unfortunately) Only the knowledge is marked.

Yes Pete, Oral questions can cover all topics, from the manufacture of steel to the operation of a transistor on a circuit board. The point is, the Certificate is an STCW one, with which you can go on any ship, of any power, in that capacity, anywhere in the world. It doesn't say "mud puddles only" or "not out of sight of land", (although that will come in a year or so.) The Examiner must be satisfied that the candidate can safely and efficiently do his or her job, whether it be in a force 9, 500 miles north of New Zealand in a bulker, in the middle of the Indian Ocean in a full chemical tanker with no power for 3 days or tied up at the CCG dock in St Johns. The Oral puts you in a position of "what would you do if....." and tries to make sure you won't kill anybody or do too much damage.

There is no "work boat" ticket, if you want to go STCW, you must meet STCW standards.