2nd Class Mtr Orals

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EMD645
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2nd Class Mtr Orals

Postby EMD645 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:36 pm

Hello everyone. I'm looking for some helpful guidance on where to concentrate my studying efforts for the 2nd's orals. I've been concentrating on safety, operations and watchkeeping, regulations and the like but some specifics would be very helpful.

Also has anyone heard of a maximum percentage possible on the written exams. I'm inclined to think it's impossible to get more than about 67% (6 of 9 questions, each question carries %11.111). Maybe this is just paranoid thinking but considering if you answer more than 6 only the lowest 6 are accepted, it wouldn't suprise me. If anyone has achieved more than 67% please let me know (and congrats to you), so I can lay this theory to rest.

Cheers.

-------

Thanks for the replies.

I am well aware of the fact that you are allowed to answer only 6 of 9 questions. My reasoning is that even if you complete all 6 perfectly, you can still only achieve %66.6666 because of how they may structure the marking system. IF you were allowed to answer 9 questions this would = %100. I believe this is a way of weeding out those that don't know their stuff. %6.67 is not a very big margin of error. This may be why %60 is all that's required to pass.

Another point of interest.... Even if you complete 5 questions at about %72 average you should still pass because this still equals %60 overall. However, this is not the case because TC says you must complete 6 questions. It apparently doesn't matter how well you do on the first 5, if 6 are not completed you fail. This leads me to believe there are many unwritten rules and strange policies behind TC's doors.

Then again, maybe I'm just not as smart as I think I am, which is probably more likely :lol:
Last edited by EMD645 on Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Mtr Orals

Postby JK » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:36 am

Also has anyone heard of a maximum percentage possible on the written exams. I'm inclined to think it's impossible to get more than about 67% (6 of 9 questions, each question carries %11.111). Maybe this is just paranoid thinking but considering if you answer more than 6 only the lowest 6 are accepted, it wouldn't suprise me. If anyone has achieved more than 67% please let me know (and congrats to you), so I can lay this theory to rest


I am not exactly sure what you are asking here.
TC normally does not tell you your marks, but reading upside down, I know I have made significantly higher then 67% on my 2nds steam exam, so you theory is not correct. And why would you ever answer more then 6 questions? I have always considered my self lucky to know 4 definitely, 2 somewhat and the other three be clueless about.On my 2nds steam I hit it lucky and just about every question touched on boiler work I had just finished in our last refit. Plus there is the whole time issue. Writing 6 answers and drawings included makes time very short. I can't even imagine doing more then 6. Personally, I read all the questions and separate them into piles. One pile is the questions I know and can do the quickest, the second pile is the ones I have to think more about and will need more time, the third pile is the absolutely clueless pile or the ones I am less knowledgeable about. You do the questions you know most about first, because you can do them quickly then the questions you have to think about more. 6 questions in 3 hours is 30 minutes apiece so you have to watch the time and ensure you don't write too much on the ones you know and make the time too short for the rest of the questions.

As for the orals, I always make sure I know the answer for the 6 questions I didn't answer in the written (motor/steam, EK), then safety, some management, now ISM will play a big part in the answers and then hope that I studied everything I need to know. When you come out of the written, write down your questions as soon as you can before you forget what you were asked.
If the Examiner wants to fail you in the oral, I think he could do it easily enough just by asking obscure questions. It really is impossible to study everything. Good marks in your written does help in your orals I have found.

Remember you are doing your 2nds. You are now moving out of the watchkeeping routine to managing the engineroom. Always make sure you answer your questions in that way. Firefighting, you are directing a team, repairs, you are directing and analyzing causes. You are setting watches and work lists.

Your questions puzzled me, which is why I directed my answer towards the written part. I think there are people out there who are writing their exams and are not being told how to write the exam to be most effective.

Good luck in your Orals. Remember to breath. Passing out in front of the examiner will definitely not help ;)

stokes82
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Re: 2nd Class Mtr Orals

Postby stokes82 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:06 am

Make sure to read up on the Canada shipping act and know where to find the regulations. They went after me on that stuff for 3rd and 2nd class orals. Knowing the answers to the questions you skipped as JK said is also important. Good luck in there.

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alanocean
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Re: 2nd Class Mtr Orals

Postby alanocean » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:07 am

You are looking at it as each question is worth 11.11% and you are only alowed to do 6. This is not true you will only be marked on 6 and if you do more than you will be marked on the 6 lowest. This is so you only do 6 and not try to squeeze marks by half assing a question or 3. If you do 6 and they are perfect you will get a mark of 100% Good luck with that but hope this helps.

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JK
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Re: 2nd Class Mtr Orals

Postby JK » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:04 pm

My reasoning is that even if you complete all 6 perfectly, you can still only achieve %66.6666 because of how they may structure the marking system. IF you were allowed to answer 9 questions this would = %100.


No, I am 99.9% sure you are not right in this reasoning. You can make above 66%. If not, you only have a 6% range of passing which means I would still have a 4ths.
There are weird things at TC, but this is not one of them ;)
( He surveyed last week.)

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JollyJack
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Re: 2nd Class Mtr Orals

Postby JollyJack » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:38 am

no, there are no "weird things" at TC, it's all laid out quite clearly in the Marine Personnel regulations

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/SOR-2007-115/ and in TP 2293 http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp ... u-2254.htm

On a written exam for 3rd class and up, (4th is a multiple choice) you answer 6 of the 9 questions. If more than 6 are answered, the highest scoring answers are disregarded. It is possible to score 100%, a math question is a math question, and the Examiner cannot argue with maths. However, the standard is very exhaustive (that's why canadian tickets are highly regarded world wide) and you'd better make sure it's exact when you submit it if you want to score 100%

Oral examinations are best put in perspective by quoting the Examiner in Aberdeen, who gave me my 2nd Class orals way back in the 70s. "I will give you an oral examination on general engineering knowledge. General Engineering Knowledge is everything you know about Engineering. Well? What do you know?"

2nd class Oral examination content is spelled out in TP2293, section 27.12 found here http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp ... 480.htm#12

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Big Pete
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Re: 2nd Class Mtr Orals

Postby Big Pete » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:49 pm

As far as I understand it from the UK system, which is similar,effectively each of the 6 questions are marked out of 16.66 to make a total of 100.
I always used to allow about 5 minutes to sit down, calmly!! and read all the questions and and place them in order as JK has said.
Then leave about 10 minutes for the end for reading through checking and adding any extra points that you think of.
Strictly divide the remaining time by 6 to give the same time to each question. NEVER over run the time you have allocated to each question, leave it and go back to it at the end if you have time.
The first marks you gain on each question are the quickest and easiest, the additional marks are progressively harder to get. Even if you spent the whole exam on one question it would be impossible to score more than 16% by answering one question, you would just be wasting your time, guaranteeing that you would fail.
To have any chance of passing you must attempt 6 questions, no more no less.
Demonstrate that you can manage your time in an efficient and disciplined way. That is also something that the examiners are looking for.

Good Luck.
BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.


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