Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Going through the licensing process ? Have queries, comments, or do you need an answer to that obscure exam question ? This is the place to post.
User avatar
Big Pete
Engineering Mentor
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:18 pm
Currently located: Solihull, England

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Big Pete » Sat May 01, 2010 8:17 pm

I have come to this thread late, but a few comments:-

""If a bulb appears dim, or fails to illuminate, what do you do?

The answer this you need to know how these lights are wired and what happens in each circumstance. Here's on answer...

1) Check the bulb first to make sure you haven't got a burnt-out bulb, or one that is about to expire.
2) A dim bulb (compared to the rest) means you could have a partially-grounded circuit. Switch electrical distribution panels off-then-on again to find the one affecting light. Once you find it, switch individual breakers off-then-on again to find the one affecting the light. Trace the circuit in the ship to do tests and make repairs.
3) If a bulb is completely dark (after checking the bulb), you probably have a dead short circuit. Check thgrough the panels as per section 2)."""

There are other possibilities for a dim bulb, circuit overloaded, causing a volt drop in the electric cables, Bulb of incorrect voltage fitted to circuit, e.g. European 220 Volt instead of USA 110 Volt.

With regard to starting air compressors with the drains open, this used to be the normal practice, back in the days when I first came to Sea. In those days the compressors were manually operated. When the watch keeper saw the air pressure was a bit low, he opened the discharge valve on the compressor, checked the oil level, and that all the drains were open, pressed the start button and held it in, then slowly wound up the rheostat until the compressor reached full speed (watching the ammeter all the time so as not to trip out the compressor on overload), then slowly closed the drains until the compressor was delivering air. When the air bottles reached the correct pressure, the drain valves were slowly opened, the compressor stopped and the discharge valve closed. Of course this was all in the days of 220 volt D.C. open fronted switch boards, if the Leckie didn't top up the oil filled dash pots on the overloads, it could be a real struggle to get the compressor running without tripping it. So the bit about the drain valves might be a relic of the past.


On the valve lash question I would like to add to Martins answer that the clearance on exhaust valves is usually about 50%bigger than that on inlet valves because the flow of exhaust gas around the valve stem heats it up and makes it expand, more than the cylinder head itself, while the inlet valve is cooled by the incoming air. Consequently, when the engine is running at full load the exhaust valve clearance is much less than when the engine is stopped. As Martin says, if you have a clearance, the valve should be completely closed. If there is no clearance the exhaust valve might be a fraction open, allowing exhaust to blow past, reducing engine power and efficiency and eventually causing the valve and possibly the seat to burn out. (It will also put more energy into the turbo charger so the RPM and charge air pressure will increase, consequently the exhaust temperatures will fall, except for the cylinder with the leaking valve) In the case of the inlet valve, if it is not closed, exhaust gas will flow into the inlet manifold causing it to overheat, and the engine will then be aspirating hot exhaust fumes instead of clean air, power and efficiency will drop and exhaust temperastures go up, the valve and seat will burn out. The volume of gas going to the Turbo will be reduced,therefore TC RPM will be down, this will further raise exhaust temperatures. Charge air pressure will be raised by the leaking combustion gas but lowered by the reduced TC output, so I do not know what the overall effect of that would be.

You appear to be putting together a very comprehensive manual, and I wish you the best of luck with it. Drop me a pm anytime if you think I can help.
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

Piperest
First Time Poster
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 7:25 am

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Piperest » Sun May 02, 2010 7:55 am

Hi Brian,

It's Stefan from Mariposa. I have found the following resources excellent guides to assist you in developing the program. They are:

"Reed's Engineering Knowledge: Instruments and Controls for Deck Officers"

"Reed's Marine Engineering Series #8: General Engineering Knowledge for Marine Engineers"

and, to a lesser extent:

"Merchant Marine Officers HandbooK"

The answers provided by the fellows in this forum are most helpful and I will incorporate them into our training that commences tomorrow. We train for four vessels (Oriole, Showboat Royal Grace, Rosemary and Torontonian). It is always a challenge to get through some of these pretty complicated concepts to university and college students who are hired to be bartenders and tour guides. Our training is a very intensive mix of classroom and ER practical training. We also finish each day with an emergency drill of one sort or another so that they can be more comfortable with their rolls.

I do empathize with the comments of JK about the safety concerns going on some passenger vessels. When I go vessels for pleasure purposes, I do a walk about with my wife to find everything that is needed for dealing with emergencies. It is just prudent.

Will your crew be at Safety Day May 15? If so, see you there.

Stefan

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby JollyJack » Sun May 02, 2010 5:37 pm

Brian, I'd refer you to section 151 (2) of the Marine Personnel Regulations which states:

(2) Despite item 1 of the table to subsection (1), an applicant for a Small Vessel Machinery Operator certificate restricted for use on board a specified passenger-carrying vessel that has a propulsive power of less than 750 kW and is engaged on a limited near coastal voyage, Class 2 or a sheltered waters voyage may, instead of meeting the requirements of that item,

(a) successfully complete training related to the propulsion system and safety systems fitted on the vessel; or

(b) acquire at least 10 days of sea service performing engine-room duties on the vessel or a vessel of the same class.


A candidate for a restricted SVMO need only complete training related to THAT VESSEL or complete 10 days of service in THAT VESSEL or one of the same class. The SVMO Certificate issued will be for THAT VESSEL on a NC2 or Sheltered Waters voyage, which covers tour boat operations.
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

User avatar
Big Pete
Engineering Mentor
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:18 pm
Currently located: Solihull, England

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Big Pete » Thu May 06, 2010 1:05 am

I have re read the previous posts I have a few more comments:-

How much spare hydraulic oil for the steering system should be stored on board?

For all Lubricating and Hydraulic oils I always try to have enough of each grade to replace a full charge of oil in the largest system on board that uses that grade, in case of a catastrophic leak, or the oil being contaminated, plus the estimated consumption until the next time oil will be supplied.
In my opinion, this is the minimum safe quantity to have on board any ship.


Re Galvanic action:-I believe sacrificial anodes on the Hull of a vesel in Fresh water are now usually made of Magnesium.

[color=#0040FF]Some engine types have Zinc anodes fitted in the Raw Water ( Sea Water) side of the cooling system and Soft Iron anodes fitted in the Fresh water side of the cooling system, in order to protect against corrossion.
If Zinc anodes are mistakenly fitted to the Fresh Water side they will increase corrossion.
If the ship is operated in Fresh water the zinc anodes should be replaced with Magnesium.


With regards to Emergency Generators, I believe that the SOLAS requirements are that an emergency generator should automatically start, and be providing power to the emergency circuits, within 40 seconds of failure of the normal power supply.


Q: What does the term "paralleling generators mean, and how is it accomplished. Why is it done and what are the main problems to look out for when paralleling is being done?
[/color]
A: Paralleling generators is done when the demand for power on the ship begins to exceed the output of the generator currently on-line. More power is required so another generator is added to the same distrubution system.

It is accomplished by using making sure the two generators are first matched in voltage and amperage output. Their outputs are then adjusted to be "in phase" with one another, normally using a special device called a synchronizer. [b] There can be no amperage ouput until after the generator has been connected to the switchboard!! The voltage and frequency have to be equalised and the phase angles matched, then the circuit breaker put in before any current will be produced.


In phase means that the "wave pattern" of the alternating current output is identical from both genrators before the second generator is switched on-line. If they are not, they will either cancel one another out, create a dangerous amount of heat, or one will begin to act like an electric motor, driven by the other generator.[b]One generator will only run as a motor if the voltage of the other generator (DC) or the frequency of the other generator (AC) are too high. All Alternators produce an identical, sinusoidal, wave pattern, in order to synchronise alternators have to be "in phase! .[/b]I am sure this can be improved and shortened.


Brian[/b]

For Both Alternating Current and Direct Current vessels, parralleling generators means to connect more than one generator to the switchboard (distribution system) so that they share the load.
This can be done to provide more power than a single generator can provide or to provide redundancy in the power supply, so that if one generator fails, the other generator will continue to provide the required power without any interruption. It is normal Merchant Navy practice to have an extra generator set running for "Stand By" ie when the vessel is manoevring into or out of a Port or operating close to an oil Platform, or in any other situation where a sudden loss of electrical power would be dangerous.

The oil & coolant levels of the additional engine should be checked and topped up as required, the engine should be started and idled while it is checked for leaks and the oil and coolant pressures are checked, and it warms up.

If the generators are DC the voltage of the generator ( Dynamo) is adjusted to be exactly the same as the voltage of the switchboard. The Circuit breaker (switch) is then put in to connect the generator to the switchboard. The incoming generator should then be "floating on the switchboard" not generating any power. The voltage regulator for the incoming generator is "increased" this will increase the amperes and Kw generated by this generator, the voltage regulator of the other generator should be reduced to maintain the switchboard voltage at the correct level. This should continue until the total load on the switchboard is shared between the running generators in proportion to their rated power outputs.

If the generators are Alternating Current the voltage is usually regulated automatically by an Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR). The actual voltage should be checked before synchronising.The frquency is roughly adjusted to be the same as the switchboard, using the frequency meters. There are 3 different ways of manually synchronising (matching the phase angle of ) A.C. generators (alternators):-

1) Bright lights. Three white lights are arranged in a triangle on the switchboard. The speed (frequency) of the incoming generator is adjusted so that the lights appear to rotate slowly clockwise, when the top light is lit and the two lower lights are dark, the circuit breaker is put in.

2) Dark lights. There are two lights, side by side, which will flash. The speed/ frequency is adjusted so that the flashing is as slow as possible, when both lights are dark, the circuit breaker is put in.

3)Synchroniser (Synchroscope) These are usually only rated to run for 20 minutes at a time and should be switched off after use, or they will burn out. The speed/ frequency should be adjusted so that the pointer rotates clockwise as slowly as possible, when the pointer is at the 11 O' clock position the circuit breaker is put in.

After any of the the 3 procedures above, the alternator should be "floating" on no load. The speed /frequency of the incoming alternator should then be increased, and that of the already running alternator is decreased so that the power in Kw is shared between the alternators in proportion to their rated output, and the switchboard is at the currect frequency. The voltage should be checked and the current amps should be in proportion to the Kw.


Some or all of these processes may be automatic rather than manual.

In my opinion that is the minimum safe procedure, I am not sure how to shorten it without compromising safety, unless all the vessels are fully automated, in which case the operator just presses one button and everything described above is done automatically, controlled by some electronic Gubbins.
It is much easier to devise vessel specific training than to cover all possibilities!!!!!.

BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

Brian Brooks
Mechanic
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:54 am

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Brian Brooks » Thu May 06, 2010 11:58 am

Big Pete...

Thanks for the excellent repsonses.

I already plan to change some of the teaching text material as a result.

This is exactly what I was hoping to get out of this forum, especially for SVMO watchkeeping engineers in training where there are no mentors. They could simply plug into this forum and ask away.

Many thanks.

Stefan...

You're the exact person whose work this material is meant to assist. What I should do is send you a copy of the current incarnation of our teaching manual. You may find it most helpful. It is a 115 page first edition, in colour, illustrated and written in plain language. This version is presently at AMSPN branch in Ottawa (Bruno Duguay). John Dunn is reviewing it.

Can I send it via expresspost to the regular company address in Toronto, attention your name? Will it get to you?

Brian Brooks.

Brian Brooks
Mechanic
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:54 am

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Brian Brooks » Thu May 06, 2010 1:44 pm

Stefan, Harlequin:

Sorry, I forgot to mention that we used 3 texts in putting together our SVMO training manual - Reed's Engineering Knowledge for Marine Engineers 8, Reed's Instruments and Control Systems for Deck Officers, and Introduction to Marine Engineering by D. A. Taylor.

Hamilton Waterfront trust is approved to train seasonal crews in MED A1L and MED A2L, so we wont' be at safety day, though I'd like to come down and say 'Hi'. We've got our 262 grt vessel in drydock right now and I'm pulling my hair out daily!

Best regards,

Brian.

Brian Brooks
Mechanic
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:54 am

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Brian Brooks » Thu May 06, 2010 3:09 pm

Stefan -

My sincere apology. When I looked it up, I should have known you were with one of Canada's best cruise companies, Mariposa. I don't know what I was thinking.

Brian.

Brian Brooks
Mechanic
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:54 am

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Brian Brooks » Thu May 06, 2010 3:20 pm

Jollyjack -

Are you saying that none of us, many who have served in the military, many with search & rescue experience, risking their lives daily for people they don't even know; people who have made mistakes in judgement for which your wife and children must sit and wait on pins and needles to see if their lives will change...that we don't don't know anything about how to operate safe tour boats?

Are you saying that the rules are the whole ball game - no real knowledge is required as long as you have read and eye chart and pack a first aid certificate, conform to a series of esoteric rules, that there are no ethical considerations, no pride, no proper textbooks needed for Canadians doing this work?

Please permit me to understand where you're coming from. That is apparently more than you would permit me.

Sincerely,

Brian.

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby JollyJack » Fri May 07, 2010 4:16 am

I'm not making any judgemental calls Brian, merely posting the Regulations. If you're "wearing the Flag", (and patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, according to Ben Franklin) you might like to know that I, too, have proudly worn the uniform of HM and continued in uniform in the Merchant service for many years. As I said, I don't decide policy, I don't spin info and I don't pontificate. In this forum, I merely post the regulations, or links to them and to TPs relevant to the subject matter. Some people might appreciate that, but if you think the Regulations must be changed, vote NDP next election.

Naval equivilancies for engineers are covered in TP2293, section 2.8, tables VI and VII, which you can peruse here:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp ... 2-77.htm#8

The requirements for SVMO are specified in the Marine Personnel Regulations, section 151, the complete text of which is this:

Small Vessel Machinery Operator

151. (1) An applicant for a Small Vessel Machinery Operator certificate shall meet the requirements set out in column 1 of the table to this subsection and the corresponding specifications set out in column 2.
TABLE

Column 1 Column 2
Item Requirements Specifications
1. Experience Acquire at least two months of qualifying service as follows:
(a) at least 1 month of sea service as an engineer or a rating performing engine-room duties on one or more motor vessels; and
(b) any remaining time any combination of the types of service set out in item 2 of the table to subsection 147(1).

2. Certificates to be provided to the examiner
(a) MED with respect to small passenger vessel safety; and
(b) marine basic first aid.

3. Pass examinations
(a) Written examination on general engineering knowledge of small vessels, after meeting the requirements of items 1 and 2; and

(b) after passing the examination referred to in paragraph (a),
(i) oral examination on general engineering knowledge of small vessels if applying for an unrestricted certificate, and
(ii) practical examination on board the vessel in respect of which the certificate is sought if applying for the restricted certificate referred to in subsection (2).


(2) Despite item 1 of the table to subsection (1), an applicant for a Small Vessel Machinery Operator certificate restricted for use on board a specified passenger-carrying vessel that has a propulsive power of less than 750 kW and is engaged on a limited near coastal voyage, Class 2 or a sheltered waters voyage may, instead of meeting the requirements of that item,

(a) successfully complete training related to the propulsion system and safety systems fitted on the vessel; or
(b) acquire at least 10 days of sea service performing engine-room duties on the vessel or a vessel of the same class.

Note that the Restricted SVMO includes a practical examination aboard the vessel in addition to the General and Oral Examinations, as specified in table item 3 (b)(ii), which requires a written exam AND an oral exam AND a practical Exam for the Restricted SVMO. Subsection 2 deals with qualifying service, ("despite item 1 etc) it has nothing to do with Examinations.

The MPRs are here: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/SOR-2007- ... 1-gb:s_144

Incidentally, Naval sea service is acceptable and certified sea days are counted at time and a half, in accordance with TP2293 section 3.7. A summary of Sea Days can be obtained from D.Mar.Pers. at DND HQ on Colonel By drive in Ottawa, phone 613 996 6868. The appropriate form (request for a Summary of Sea Days) can be obtained from there. (better have your MPRR handy when you call!) Naval sea days are counted only when the screw turns for 24 hours, midnight to midnight. If the vessel stops for any reason, that day is not counted. STCW days, on the other hand, are counted from sign on day to sign off day. (TP2293, section 3.3 (1)) The accurate calculation is Julian date of sign-off minus the Julian date of sign-on. 12 hour days are counted at x 1.5 with the production of Testmonials indicating 12 hours a day on watch. TP2293 (3.3)(6)
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

Brian Brooks
Mechanic
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:54 am

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Brian Brooks » Fri May 07, 2010 5:09 am

Jolly Jack

Thanks for the detailed reply, but I think you may have missed my point. There is no patriotism involved whatever. I come at this problem from a different perspective, and can contribute things that go well beyond the new SVMO regulations and requirements (with which I agree completely).

Unfortunately, I recently heard a TCMS speaker at a national conference refer to the "dumbing down" of SVMO exan requirements to something akin to asking a candidate to face the bow of the boat and identify the port and starboard sides. This was appratently as a result of lobbying efforts from private industry. It concerns me.

My objective is to create a new ethic surrounding what was previously regarded as a standing joke - the R-Eng. Creating new, high quality study materials (our SVMO manual has been compared to that recently approved for BCIT, by the way) is a start, then plugging these people into a broader system where they can pose questions and feel like part of something important. Make it "cool" to be an SVMO, with an appropriate level of real knowledge.

The reason for doing this is ship safety.

I can't help but think that this must be in line with TCMS AMSPN values and objectives.

What is your view?

Brian

Brian Brooks
Mechanic
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:54 am

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Brian Brooks » Fri May 07, 2010 5:48 am

Thanks to all for contributing...

I have shown recent postings to this thread to my executive director (Hamitlon Waterfront Trust) and his advice is to dump the entire SVMO project now, shredding everything created in the past couple of years. It would appear that no-one needs or wants it.

This has been a very enlightening experience and I have met some outstanding people.

My personal thanks.

Brian

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby JollyJack » Fri May 07, 2010 6:29 am

To dump the project now, Brian, would be a loss to the industry and a sad comment on private operators. Industry's perception is that if a guy has to hold a Certificate of Competence, he'll want more money, and that is anathema to Industry, whose only objective is to increase profits. If, by doing so, a few seafarers are lost along the way, then seafarers are, and always have been, disposable to Industry. Any bleating to the contrary by Industrial interests is hypocrisy.

The intent of the SVMO programme is to make things safer by putting people who know what they are doing in places where they are needed. Yes, there is resistance from Industry, who see TC involvement as "meddling". In my opinion, "meddling" in safety matters by a regulating Authority is essential. If the British Board of Trade had "meddled" appropriately in 1912, the Titanic would have had sufficient lifeboats for the whole complement of crew and passengers when she left Belfast and the Officers would have known what to do when it was obvious that the ship was sinking. That was the Genesis of SOLAS and STCW, so yes, "meddling" is essential to keep shipowners honest.

If US regulators had "meddled" with the oil industry in Louisiana, there wouldn't be a massive slick threatening to wipe out wildlife and the fishing industry between the Missisippi and Panama City in Florida. It takes a huge event to initate regulation, the stable door is always closed after the horse has bolted. It took the Torrey Canyon disaster to do something about oil slicks, and MARPOL was born. "Self-regulation" by Corporate interests is an oxymoron.

I note you mention AMSPN in your post. The "N" is "Nautical" and refers to wavewatchers, not Engineers. There are some very good people in both departments, "N" and "E", dedicated to safety at sea, upholding the high regard in which Canadian CoCs are held world wide, the preservation of life and protection of the marine environment. In my opinion, the greatest handicap to that noble objective is CMAC, where Industry dictates to the regulating body what regulations and limits they are prepared to accept. I question who is driving the bus, sometimes.
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

User avatar
The Dieselduck
Administrator
Posts: 2818
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:41 pm
Currently located: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast of Canada)

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby The Dieselduck » Fri May 07, 2010 10:01 am

Goodness gracious, I step away for a few days and your "boss" is ready to give up on the project.

I can see from the various discussion that the topic has stress you a bit Brian, I can understand, it sounds like you want to do the right thing but it is hard to get people to appreciate the efforts. Career marine engineer will look down on the tour boats, probably much like cops look down on security guards , but both are valuable services. Well, I am sure that most people grew up learning to crawl, walk and then run, nobody I know was born running. Anyways, I applaud your endeavors and I think it would be silly to shred everything, at the very least send it my way and I can make it available online for all, like you said, I am certain there is plenty material there for a variety of skills levels.

I see that Big Pete has answered some of your latest questions, and JollyJack made good reference to regs. I just wanted to comment on the mention of Reed's being valuable resource for this project. I personally don't like Reed's much. I find it a bit tedious, but the Canadian system draws heavily from them so I have the full set. I think at this level an excellent text, and one I feel should be more than adequate for technical engine room matters, is Taylor's Introduction to ME as you mentioned. An excellent read full of information that wont overwhelm the candidate with too much technical intricacies.

Starting something new with quality in mind is never easy, so I think its normal to be a bit frustrated with such a project. But I wish you all the best and continued support in your efforts to improve maritime safety in all sectors of our industry.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

Brian Brooks
Mechanic
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:54 am

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby Brian Brooks » Fri May 07, 2010 1:10 pm

Thanks Martin.

My boss was ready to pull the plug because of the money we've spent on this project, including the plan to include a modern marine training facility in the large construction project now underway outside out offices on Pier 8. We have other fish to fry if this is not something we should be in.

Best personal regards,

Brian, RGD Emeritus

User avatar
JK
Enduring Contributor
Posts: 2708
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:29 am
Currently located: East Coast, Canada

Re: Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

Postby JK » Sat May 08, 2010 1:06 am

That is too bad, I think that there is more need of what you are trying to do.
I would think there are people who get involved with tour boats who have no idea of the regulatory implications of decisions until the Surveyor pulls the pins out from under them.


Return to “Training Room”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest