Cummins

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Halifax_Stoker
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Cummins

Postby Halifax_Stoker » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:06 pm

Hey,
I am currently working as a cheif engineer on a small tug in Northern Ontario. We have old school Cummins engines, built in 1962 they are model V12 525M, sometimes known as V28's or 1710's. We have one that is pretty much shot. I only started working here a couple weeks ago so I am not sure the complete history of the maintenance but I have one engine that is no good. I am looking for basically everything, Cam shafts, bearings (mains and journals), Oil pump,
cylinder liners, ETC. I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find any parts like these? Also the gearbox is a Twin Disc 5.17:1 ratio which operates at 525hp at 1800rpm. Another possibility is to just find a replacement engine. This is a very urgent matter as we are already behind schedule this season and losing more time everyday. If anyone can help please e mail me at larry_piercey@hotmail.com. Thanks for your time any help would be great even advice...

Rgds Larry

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The Dieselduck
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Re: Cummins

Postby The Dieselduck » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:14 pm

Obviously Cummins would be my first place to call. Here it is on the website http://marine.cummins.com/mrn/public_cu ... 3&menuId=1. I am sure they could suggest a replacement, perhaps a KTA38 might work and is fairly common (http://marine.cummins.com/attachments/p ... fr6220.pdf) Its a bit more powerful, but then the skipper will like you. Or QSK19-M might also be good, although I am not too familiar with this one http://marine.cummins.com/attachments/p ... fr4489.pdf.

Then again, http://www.ringpower-systems.com/Equipm ... 0525HP.pdf here's one for sale, if your in a pinch.

You could consider changing it out with a 12V71 or the likes, those are still pretty common and still in your size / price range... I guess it all depends on your budget. Obviously a new Cummins would be about the right fit and smaller for the same horsepower, probably pretty quick delivery time as well. Any of the cats in this power range are big hunks of iron, I think bigger than the cummins I think, and if your in a tugboat this could be a problem for you.
Martin Leduc
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JK
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Re: Cummins

Postby JK » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:13 am

Don't despair I deleted your double post. That ensures that your info is in one place.

I second talking to Cummins, check out Volvo as well.
One thing about an engine that old, any replacement engine of the same horsepower should be smaller.

Detroit Diesel deals with the Twin Disc clutches.

JFC
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Re: Cummins

Postby JFC » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:16 am

Hi Larry,

That particular engine and model was popular in the logging industry on the Canadian west coast. Most have disappeared now and have been replaced with far more efficient models. I know the CCG R-class Coast Guard Cutters on the west coast (Racer. Ready and Rider), re-powered those engines with Deutz engines in around the mid 80's.
You really should consider a re-power.

The business case runs like this......

-your power to weight ratio has changed many times over since that design.
-Electronic fuel control and materials would allow so much better fuel consumption, probably a conservative estimate of at least 9-11% for the same or slightly higher horse-power (watch out for salesmen promising higher fuel savings, unless they agree that you pay them from the savings...ha ha).
-Maintenance costs would go down, as the mechanical failures you experience now are unexpected due to the age of the materials in the old engines.
-You would have far more space available in your pit.
-you get pat on the back, and less work to boot!

I have done many of these types of upgrades in my professional marine engineering career. The only risk you will need to consider is that modern engines generally require fuel to cool the injectors. this results in recirculating considerable amounts of warm fuel back to your fuel tanks or day tank. Which can lead to a situation where the volume of fuel stored may become heated, sometimes to the point of requiring cooling or larger capacity storage than you currently use. Just a tip to remember, and is often overlooked by in my experience. Also important to consider the water cooling capacity because a newer engine is lighter thin walled material and often the heat transfer required from the cooling water may be more.....not likely in your case, but just a reminder if you are hull cooled or keel cooled etc...Also determine life-cylce cost for say 20K hours from new OEM's maintenance profile using their parts and service and you will have very good way to compare apples to oranges.
You may also be able to re-use those Twin Disc gearboxes to keep some costs down, as they are bullet proof. May need some Torsional Vibration Analysis done, but you can make the engine supplier provide that.

The fuel savings and life-cycle costs will speak for themselves.

Good Luck!

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The Dieselduck
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Re: Cummins

Postby The Dieselduck » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:27 pm

it would be nice to have a follow up on this Larry, as this situation is not as uncommon as you might think. Of course when your are done dealing with this problem...
Martin Leduc
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TCB MARINE
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Re: Cummins

Postby TCB MARINE » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:32 pm

The best place to obtain the parts is at IPD Partshttp://www.ipdparts.com/

Best of luck

Todd

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Halifax_Stoker
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Re: Cummins

Postby Halifax_Stoker » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:24 am

Hey Martin,

Very sorry, just noticed your post about a follow up on the topic. Well we ended up getting a Cummins guy in from Montreal who, like me, was not impressed with the situation. I was informed the ship was in top condition when in fact it was abused and falling apart. By the time we had both engines up and running the owner of the operation had found a 3rd engineer and basically said my services were no longer needed on the ship. He offered me a position on shore but I am a sailor first and fortunately had an offer from Atlantic Towing so I cut my losses and now work for ATL as a second on their Coastal Tugs. To the best of my knowledge the engines were not an issue for him for the rest of the season, but he is intending on swapping out for the KTA 19 like you recommended over the winter. We ended up reusing all the bearings and refurbished cam shafts because we were not successful in locating those parts. Because of this I told him he needs to re-power this ship with something more common. Thank you for your help as usual, and best in the New Year.

Rgds Larry

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The Dieselduck
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Re: Cummins

Postby The Dieselduck » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:39 am

Good to hear of the follow up. Its always nice to have some form of closure of these issues. Sounds like a typical day at work ehehehe.

Cheers, and happy new year.
Martin Leduc
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Martin's Marine Engineering Page
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