Another Picture Quizz

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Big Pete
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Another Picture Quizz

Postby Big Pete » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:09 am

Here are three photographs of the lifting arrangement for the Rescue Boat on my last ship.
What can people see?
Overview of Rescue Boat.JPG
Overview of Rescue Boat.JPG (164.1 KiB) Viewed 4784 times
Inside of boat.JPG
Inside of boat.JPG (65.76 KiB) Viewed 4784 times
Outside of boat.JPG
Outside of boat.JPG (83.75 KiB) Viewed 4784 times
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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JK
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby JK » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:35 am

Wow, I am truly appalled. :shock:
I can see at least 6 issues without even blowing the picture up bigger.

ETA I got 8 obvious issues. Can someone beat that?

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JK
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby JK » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:21 am

Over 30 hits and no one is offering any thoughts on this?

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Big Pete
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby Big Pete » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:55 am

Hi JK,
is that a thundercloud or are you laying smoke?
A short history of the Pics. While the ship was in Port the boat was lowered for a test run. On hoisting the boat the Starboard wire pulled the eye out of the eyepad and the boat tilted. The AB in the boat then decided to jump in the Sea. He and the boat were recovered, and the Second Engineer and Chief Officer carried out repairs without informing me. The first I heard about it was that night when the Captain informed me, so that as Safety Officer, I could write up the accident. I took the pictures the next day after both the Second Engineer and Chief Officer had informed me that the boat was fully repaired and ready for use.

BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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JK
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby JK » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:02 am

LOL, my first ship was a steamer and the most common call from the Bridge was "you're smoking". By the time you hung up the Hear Here phone, you were, because the phone was over the hotwell.

What I saw:


1/ Uncertified weld on pad eye. We are not sure of the material of the ring and if it will take the load or fail, or if the weld itself will fail.

2/ Threaded stock on pad eye base through hull, material compatibility and strength?

3/ Backing plate, what can you say about that piece of rust! Scavenged from the beaches of Alang!

4/Hull sealing arrangement on plates? No sign of gasketting which means that the core of the boat could be/will be full of water. Weight consequences to the lifting gear and davit and dimished capacity. If the ship comes North, not good for your rescue boat in freezing conditions.

5/The nuts….obviously the ship feels that there is a vibration issue and they are making sure the nuts won't come off by lock washers and double nutting. I did some reading up on this and learnt a couple of things. Lockwashers won't necessarily stop the nuts from backing off and double nutting as shown is useless. They have to put a thin nut against the plate,torqued to half value and the thicker nut on the outside torqued to full value to lock the threads. What is done here is useless.

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/twonuts.htm

6/Shackle on the quick release hook, big no-no. The pin can back out . The ring itself should be on the hook.

7/ The cables are too short, they are acting to crush the boat together when the weight is picked up (from one of the Nav Officers here). The cables that make the legs, should be longer to reduce the angle. ( Now that I know the rest of the story, it makes sense why there was a failure).

8/ No indication of load testing on the bridle.

9/The forward cable seems to be chaffing against the forward seat

I am sure there are more.

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Big Pete
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby Big Pete » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:44 am

HI JK,
I saw the fitter welding up the pad eye in the workshop but didn't realise where it came from. The "U" was originally peined over under the mounting plate and had just pulled the heads off when it came under load. With that knowledge, I did not believe that the pad eyes were ever designed to lift the boat. I suspect that the Port & Starboard pad eyes were originally fitted to secure small gear in the boat, crutches, oars, boathook, baler etc. At that time they were probably just secured with self tapping screws. The boat was probably just hoisted by the fore and aft lifting points. I suspect someone decided that the boat would be made more stable and hence safer, while hoisting and lowering, by rigging the athwartship wires & the pad eyes were then through bolted to make them more secure.
The Chief Officer was unable to find any original plan for the hoisting arrangement so I did not want to take responsibility for totally removing the side wires. So, I compromised by having an extra shackle put in each side so that the side wires would normally be slack and only tighten if the boat tilted.
The athwartship wires were also leading aft slightly and so may have pulled the forward wire aft so that it chafed on the thwart.The whole accident report was forwarded to the company, with the photographs but I did not receive a response before I paid off.
What I didn't notice at the time, but have now seen in the pictures, is the on load release hook......
But you only ever see what you are looking for, and I excuse myself on the grounds that I am not a Nautical type.

BP
Last edited by Big Pete on Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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JK
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby JK » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:01 pm

and I excuse myself on the grounds that I am not a Nautical type.


LOL, I printed the pictures off and showed them to one of our nautical fellows. The hook didn't look right to me, but it was the shackle I wasn't seeing. It was also him who pointed out that the cables are too short, which could be why the pad eye pulled out.
Interesting set of pictures, they show a lot of info when you take the time to sit and really look at them.
Because I did some reading on the locking arrangements, I came across the Junker Test, by which I was able justify poking around on the 'net during work.
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/junkertestvideo.htm

Thanks for posting, have I learned something here.

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The Dieselduck
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby The Dieselduck » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:47 pm

Yes, indeed quite a few scary things come out of those pictures. I'm sorry I don't have much more input to offer than that already said although perhaps the backing plate should probably be the same material as the bolts, to prevent accelerated corrosion. Overall this is not a ideal set up. Obviously a can do crew is aboard, and used to dealing with fixing things themselves aboard. Perhaps its best to revert to the OEM for parts and proper assembly on this important piece of the on board safety equipment, with a track record of maiming seafarers on a regular basis.

By the way that s a pretty insightfull video JK found. A bit nerdy ahahah. but still an eye opener. Thanks
Martin Leduc
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http://www.dieselduck.net

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Big Pete
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby Big Pete » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:14 am

Good insights Jo & Martin,

Looking at the hook, I am pretty sure that it has not been "set" properly, the hooks usually close completely so that the lift can not jump out. Another accident waiting to happen.

The stud bar through the hull is stainless steel. Stainless steel works because of the oxide film on the surface and is excellent in an Oxygen rich environment, however, if used where there is not a good supply of Oxygen, it will rot out, as in the bottom of Sea water Strainers where there is no water flow, or inside the hull of a boat where cappilliary action will draw water along the bolt, but there will be no air flow.

Where the eye of the padeye has been repaired by welding the nuts no longer sit flush, this is putting a bending moment on the stud bar in addition to the tensile load and greatly increasing the total stress, reducing the safety factor (If there ever was one).

When I joined there were repeated problems with the engine, on the weekly tests it would fail to start but then the Second Engineer would go and work on it and report that it was fixed. Eventually I went and made a close examination myself and found that the fuel tank was a plastic Jerrycan that had been modified for use as a tank, no air vent or contents gauge. The fuel smelt more like paint thinners than Petrol (Gasoline), there appeared to be excessive 2 stroke oil in it, the fuel filter on the engine was blocked solid, there was an air leak on the suction side of the engine driven fuel pump and the spark plugs were burnt and heavily carboned up. I talked to the Captain about it and found that the previous engine had failed and the Captain had used all the suppliers in a Phillipines Port to find him the cheapest possible second hand outboard, (he was very proud of the money he had saved ) the fuel tank had been stolen so the ships fitter had made the new one from the plastic jerrycan. After a struggle I got a proper (second hand) fuel tank, clean petrol, spark plugs and fixed the leak but the engine was still crap, eventually we got a better second hand one in exchange.

The crazy thing is the ship passed Port State Inspection before all this was done!

BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

jimmys
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby jimmys » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:38 am

I think the hook is an on load release hook and a lanyard should be connected to the lever which allows you to drop the last metre into the sea. It is likely you would loose the engine with the weak clamping arrangement. When cocked the lever should be up.
The slings should be matched and come from the boat supplier certified. The boat hull is very poorly finished and maybe The Master bought that somewhere as well. They must have run out of gellcoat. Grab lines are poor maybe bought them as well.
I dont like this rescue boat arrangement with this type of boat. I prefer the RIB with the Aframe davit. The Caley launching system is better this is a lifeboat design davit not a rescue boat one.
I notice the wander line astern I assume that goes to the Deadman Brake to allow on board launching.
A Port State Control Officer would not look as closely as this at the boat. Mostly just look at paperwork.
I thank God I am away out of it now fifty years is enough. This boat is par for the course all over.

regards
jimmy

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Big Pete
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Re: Another Picture Quizz

Postby Big Pete » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:33 am

Hi Jimmys,
I think the hook is an on load release, but the usual problem is every one is dfifferent and the instructions, if there was a copy on board, are usually incomprehensible, especially as I was the only Native English speaker on board, and none of the Deck Officers were of the type that would pick upo an Instruction Manual for information, and had probably never heard of an "on load" release .
The outboard is secured with the standard clamps supplied by the manufacturer.
The line tied off round the bollard on the Port quarter is a remote brake release. (I found the wire badly chafed and chased the Deck department to replace it, I then checked the Brake release wire for the Davit launched Life Raft and found that the rope only reached embarkation Deck level!!! (Not a lot of use) So I had to chase the Deck department again, to splice a rope on that would reach the waterlevel).
The Rescue boat was original from when the ship was built, a long time ago.
I know where you are coming from with your "50 years is enough" I am now in the 40th year since I started as a Cadet, and looking forward to retirement in a few years.
It is a sad comment on modern training and skills that I am running around having to do the Mate's job as well as the Second Engineer's jobs, and of course, my own.
BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.


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