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Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:23 pm
by sabih
Dear sir,
I have diesel generator of 630KW capacity installed onboard. We have recently conducted its 3000hrs routine in which we have carried out following work:
1- Removal and cleaning of all heads.
2- All cylinders and pistons were de-carbonized.
3- Gauging of valve guides.
4- Valve grinding and lapping.
5- Injector testing.
6- Testing of cylinder heads.
7- Overhauling of fuel pumps.
It is pertinent to mention that we did not touch its governor. and alternator side. But upon trial, we are facing a problem that after 350KW load, its frequency starts decreasing. We have then also cleaned its turbocharger and its accessories but the problem persists.

Plz help me with your knowledge that what could be the reason of frequency decrease.

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:05 am
by JK
Have you done any compression readings on the engine. If it worked before the overall, there is something up with the engine. Obviously.
Did you use OEM parts? Bootlegged injectors are the kiss of death

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:52 pm
by Revolver
Steadily decreasing to the under frequency trip, and manually bringing freq up before the trip has it continue to drop steadily, yeah. And gov wasn't touched...
Hrmm.

Like jk said, oem parts? And injector tests were spot on...

All potential air was properly bled from fuel pump over haul?
No stickey parts in the fuel pumps, keep a good eye on the fuel rack. A mix of oil + diesel is usually good to get them loosey goosey, make sure there's no sticking going on.

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:19 am
by The Dieselduck
Do you have enough fuel to the machine? check the stack, if not blowing a bit of black under that kind of load, maybe she's starving for fuel. I would check the simple things should be checked first - filters, fuel valves position, fuel pressure, etc.

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:53 am
by Merlyn
Dragging in air thro' a union let go for stripping?
Is it CR or older straight mechanical job?

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:43 pm
by sabih
JK wrote:Have you done any compression readings on the engine. If it worked before the overall, there is something up with the engine. Obviously.
Did you use OEM parts? Bootlegged injectors are the kiss of death
All parts are original as per OEM and technical manual but the the problem persists.

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:59 am
by Merlyn
How goes the genset RPM?

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:32 am
by D Winsor
I understand the governor wasn't touched but was the linkage to the fuel rack disconnected from the governor?
If so you should check to make sure it was placed back in the correct position on the governor spline shaft or linkage connection points. If the linkage is in the wrong position or the wrong length the governor and or fuel rack will reach it's maximum travel or load limit setting before maximum load is reached on the engine causing the engine to slow down at high loads. I've seen this many times on overhauled engines with mechanical actuators and governors such as the Woodward UG8 or similar type Governors

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:52 am
by Merlyn
Wonder how the new fangled Rolls Royce Remote control boys would handle this from their control room thousands of miles away?
You know, the people that are going to make us all redundant ?
It's bad enough trying to sort a remote problem out without even being on the scene.
How are they going to whip the linkages off and physically bar it up against the stop remotely?
How are they going to adjust the max rpm stop?
But is it common rail or straight mechanical?
What engine can it be and what model?

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:06 am
by Merlyn
Genset seized up then?
Or is it a " so that's all it was then jobby ? "
Shhhhhhhh.
Must have been trapped air on that bend I told you about said the voice.
H.E. Jobby?

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:49 am
by Merlyn
Ah well, looks like the genset has gone the same way as pushrods Pete ( Frank Perkins article re the bent pushrods since turbo change? )
Now we will never know the outcome.
I reckon a Shhhhh jobby.
Don't say anything but ...........

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:08 am
by Adiamanzph
sabih wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:23 pm Dear sir,
I have diesel generator of 630KW capacity installed onboard. We have recently conducted its 3000hrs routine in which we have carried out following work:
1- Removal and cleaning of all heads.
2- All cylinders and pistons were de-carbonized.
3- Gauging of valve guides.
4- Valve grinding and lapping.
5- Injector testing.
6- Testing of cylinder heads.
7- Overhauling of fuel pumps.
It is pertinent to mention that we did not touch its governor. and alternator side. But upon trial, we are facing a problem that after 350KW load, its frequency starts decreasing. We have then also cleaned its turbocharger and its accessories but the problem persists.

Plz help me with your knowledge that what could be the reason of frequency decrease.

Hello everyone we are now experiencing almost the same problem as above subject here onboard..

Had anyone got the solution or had a trouble shooting update on this?..

Appreciate for the help in advance..

Stay safe!!

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:16 am
by Vegman
Hey Sabih,
Well there a a number of things it could be - insufficient fuel or insufficient air or perhaps injection timing is out.
350 kw is just over half the rated power, so you have some major issue there.
Could possibly be something to do with the fuel pumps you overhauled- did you spill time them when you put them back?

But there are so many things we need to know before we can help you

Can you advise what is the make /model of the engine ?
what fuel is it running on MDO?/ HFO?, blend? ( do we even have HFO any more with new regs?)
what type of fuel pumps- bosch/ lorange/common rail?

Can you post up an image of the running log at the load where the problem starts to occur so we can look at all a parameters,

Do you have your original books/manuals from the shipyard on board that show the test bed or sea trials performance figures, that is a good place to start.
Then you can see in the past , when the engine was new , what all the parameters were at the load you are trying to achieve now.
or failing that just go back to some old log sheets form a year ago when the engine was ( presumably) running OK.

For example if rpm is okay at 300kw check what all the below original parameters were at 300 kw on the test bed- that may give you an idea of whats going on.

Just off the top of my head some things to check are
Governor indicator position , is it at maximum, when Rpm starts to drop , can you put a spanner on fuel rack linkage arm and move it (carefully!)just a little bit more, or is it at full travel or stuck somehow?
fuel pressure in out of fuel filter?
Fuel temperature? Viscosity if HFO or blend?
Charge air pressure before/after charge air cooler?
TC rpm and exh temp out
charge air temperature OK?
exhaust temps- are they balanced on all cylinders?
fuel rack position- are they balanced on all cylinders?

Do you have one of those electronic engine monitoring setups - if so put it one and check your "cards". If not you must have the old school Pax max indicator so take some Pmax and Pcomp readings and compare to test bed readings.

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:41 am
by Jameseze24
Probably you might have gotten a solution to the problem... But in case not, I suggest you to re-check your injectors.. non original fuel valves might malfunction when give more load. To understand the situation, monitor the exhaust outlet while increasing the load, it might give black smoke before dropping. Secondly, depending on the listed overhauled parts, it's important to check fuel system or try another governor if all of the above fails.

Re: Diesel Generator low frequency on high load.

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:16 pm
by popeye62
Sabih/Adiamanzph you probably have it sorted now as Vegman has provided a comprehensive checklist with the crucial question of what is it? all we know it is small and Jameseze makes an important point to check the exhaust gas visually (get to know your exhaust gas). You're doing all that every 3000 hours, is that right? When looking at these type of problems it is best to start with first principles; apologies if this is too basic, the only thing that determines the frequency is the amount of fuel going into the engine to maintain the speed required, which is determined by the number of pole pairs in the alternator. I am guessing that at 350kW the governor is not putting or not trying to put more fuel on or producing black smoke as Vegman asks, can the rack be increased manually? there may be insufficient air which is holding off the fuel (Lambda controller actuated by scavenge pressure). When T/C's are overhauled they can be down on power for a short time due to cleaning of the shroud ring around the tips of the turbine blades but this is only for a few hours and not 50% and the power returns. The problem is a lack of fuel caused by any of the previous suggestions or a limiting of fuel caused by a lack of charge air. Personally, I wouldn't swap the governor unless I was 90% sure. Is the governor low on oil, has it been flushed recently?