Engine cannot start

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jcor1995
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Engine cannot start

Postby jcor1995 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:22 pm

Hello fellow engineers, good day!
I'm currently sailing as a 3rd engineer onboard (newly promoted) for 5 months, and ever since i got onboard, I got 1 Diesel generator cannot run. The starting mechanism which is an air motor is in good condition, the engine cranks but cannot run.

Specification:
Maker: daihatsu 6DC-17
No of cylinders : 6
Fuel injection pump: bosch type (jerk-type) fuel pump
Fuel type : IFO during normal engine operation. DO during changeover prior to shutting down and during passing an ECA zone country.

Checks and maintenance done:
Fuel side:
1. Fuel injector - Opening pressure is correct, newly overhauled and well assembled as per instruction manual.
2. Fuel pump - Newly overhauled parts; plunger and barrel. control sleeve and control rack correctly installed. Injection timing is correct.
3. Fuel supply pump is in good condition, the pumping element which is the gears are newly overhauled.
4. Fuel pump relief valve is in good condition.
5. Fuel oil heater is newly cleaned.
6. Autobackwash filter (very fine filter) is newly cleaned.

Charge air side:
1. Turbocharger is newly overhauled, radial and axial clearance are in the tolerable limit.
2. Air cooler core in newly cleaned.
3. Turbo charger air filter is newly replaced.
4. Intake and exhaust valves was checked, and no problem seen, freely closing and opening.
5. Piston rings are in good shape, no blow by.

These are the things i have already done checking and overhauling but still the engine cannot start. I also suspect the governor, but i have a lack of experience when it comes to governor problems. Any suggestions and experience will be highly appreciated.

P.S. I cannot overhaul or adjust the governor due to lack of experience, any suggestions regarding the problem with the governor will be highly valued. Thank you and advance merry Christmas for my fellow marine engineers!

Revolver
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby Revolver » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:12 pm

I presume all the valves, air pressure, and proper levels of fluids are in good order.

Is there any alarms given when it fails to start.
Electrical problems from a sensor.
Mechanical over speed tripped.
Interlocks or limit switches?
Does the government arm move any when it's cranking?

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jcor1995
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby jcor1995 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:49 am

Good day sir,
based on your questions,
Is there any alarms given when it fails to start.
- The only alarm that goes is lube oil low pressure
Electrical problems from a sensor.
- The electrician already check all the sensors, it is all good.
Mechanical over speed tripped
- over trip speed is working properly, and it is not tripped.
Interlock or limit switches?
- we already check the limit switches, and they are in good shape.
Does the government arm move any when it's cranking?
-During starting, the arm moves as it should be. giving fuel to the fuel pump.

Atlantic
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby Atlantic » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:05 pm

Hi

Did you check that you got fuel at the injectors? aired out the fuel system?

More crazy stuff; are there any emergency stops are they reset? Any rig saver dampers in the air intake if so are they open? Is it turning the right way? Maybe the wrong starter? Is it turning fast enough air pressure correct?

Let us know when you find what’s wrong.

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The Dieselduck
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby The Dieselduck » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:53 pm

Sounds like a safety / control issue to me. I see the overspeed was checked, that was my guess - sometimes its mechanical, sometimes its electronic (I am not familiar with this particular engine).

I would override the governor on one pump, to see if your at least getting some fire in there. Its something very simple, you have pretty much checked everything else.

You are in local control?
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

thenorwegian
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby thenorwegian » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:01 am

This has to be some kind of joke???

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jcor1995
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby jcor1995 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:46 pm

Hello sir The Dieselduck,

I think you have a good point there, i think i should check this overspeed trip again for any mechanical damage inside.
I will first talk to CE about that over riding of governor if the governor, because as i mentioned i have no any good experience when it comes to the governor problems. And yes Sir, we are in local control. Thank you for you time to read my problem, and giving your personal idea and solution, well appreciated!

Hello Sir Atlantic,
I have already check the injector and the pipeline, and i already purge it with air. And besides, if there are air trapped inside, it will just exhausted as I am starting the engine, i think it should be just exhausted in the first crank of the engine.
And also the air pressure for starting the air motor is good, I am not familiar with this "rig saver damper" thing, I should ask the CE about that, and i will discuss it to him. It is just turning the right way, and also there is no problem with the starter panel. Thank for your comments and efforts to give some solutions to my problem Sir, well appreciated.

Hello sir thenorwegian,
I also wish it is some kind of joke, so that i can rest well at night, hehe. Happy holidays!

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D Winsor
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby D Winsor » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:42 am

After reading what has already been written sounds like you may have a fuel supply pressure/restriction problem
I'd check the drive and the relief valve on the fuel oil booster pump, if engine driven, to insure it hasn't failed or the relief valve has stuck open
I'd also check that if there is a fuel back pressure regulator fitted on the end of rail that it isn't stuck open
I'd also check the fuel supply valves to the engine to insure that if there is a gate valve in the system the gate hasn't fallen or is partially open
Troubleshooting 101 "Don't over think it - K.I.S.S. it"

mann84
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby mann84 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:10 am

Check fuel oil shutdown device/control device . Adjust it according to manual.

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Big Pete
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby Big Pete » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:30 am

Many years ago, I had a problem with a Paxman 4RPH, got a high exhaust temp alarm, seriously high and stopped it, Chief, Third and myself spent a week working on it trying to find the problem, 16 hours on 8 off. No Instrumentation on the engine, just a single exhaust gas thermometer after the Turbo.
Checked the timing perfect, overhauled the injectors, overhauled all the cylinder heads, stripped and cleaned the air cooler, stripped and cleaned the turbo and no joy. Eventually changed the fuel pump as it was the only thing we hadn't tried and Eureka, problem solved, the fuel pump shaft had sheered and it was trying to run on on 2 cylinders out of 4.

I was on another ship where one of the D/As shut down as soon as it reached 50% load, eventually figured out that somebody had swapped the governors over and not set it up correctly, at 50% load the governor output shaft was at its max. limit. Simply disconnecting the Governor arm from the splined output shaft and turning it slightly to match the other engines, cured that, lots of things can go wrong when somebody who doesn't know what they are doing works on a piece of machinery.
Remember that although most modern fuel systems are designed to be self priming, not all are, so it is worth slacking of the fuel injector pipes and cranking the engine over to see if fuel is coming out, that will also prove that the Safety Shut Down is not operating.
You say that you have a Low L.O. pressure alarm on starting, depends on the system on your engine, but if you don't have a "pre Lube" pump there will usually be a time delay before the L.O. Low pressure safety shut down operates after you press the start button, in order to give the engine time to pick up oil pressure, if this is set at too short a time then the fuel will be shut down before it can fire.
The Fuel stop solenoid is fail safe, that means there is a spring to shut the fuel off and the solenoid has to be energised to permit fuel to reach the engine, so if the coil has failed or is too weak to overcome the spring you will not have fuel.


Good luck with fixing it and a Happy New Year when you are done.

BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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JK
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby JK » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:10 am

I've only had non-starting engines twice ( I'm lucky)
One was failed wiring in the panel and the second was we forgot to put the engine pre-heat on coming off the dock.
Good luck in tracking down your problem.

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Merlyn
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby Merlyn » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:26 am

Off with the air cleaner, out with my pump up spraycan container, out with the Gallon can of Tetrachloroethylene ( also known as Perchloroethylene ) ( slang speaky "Trike" ) as I have known it to be since 1960 ) fill up the spray gun ( it's a very good engine degreaser for pin pointing oileaks ) and crank her over.
If you are not familiar with this quick no diagnostic equipment approach then when turning at proper cranking rpm start spraying outside of the inlet manifold intake and move your atmospheric spray ( akin to injector nozzle pattern, the nozzle allows for adjustment so no droplets present in the pattern ) and slowly administer the display across the inlet manifold.
Provided no valves have been clipped and camshaft turns correctly timed engine should come in on 2/3 then in on all 6 buckets inline.
This proves instantly whether you have a fueling problem or not.
Should the system not be purged properly of air then by running the engine on Trike briefly sometimes when you back off your fuel supply the engines own supply will take over thereby freeing off any trapped air.
No need to overspray and cause knocking / dreaded lockups etc, you will soon develop a spray pattern which causes smooth running.
Works well on smaller Common Rail set ups too.
A instant quick diagnosis which is easy to prove why the engine won't run.
Surprised it's not been Sussed by now though.
Don't have any dreams of broken cranks here, provided you have a steady ale free pair of hands and use common sense I have never had a problem utilizing this method that was shown to me in 1960 when I first started out and still use regularly to this day.
Best of luck!
Remembering The Good Old days, when Chiefs stood watches and all Torque settings were F.T.

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Big Pete
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby Big Pete » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:02 am

Oh Merlyn!

Trike has been long banned, very nasty stuff.

BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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The Dieselduck
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby The Dieselduck » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:29 pm

ahahah that's too funny. but great insight.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

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Merlyn
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Re: Engine cannot start

Postby Merlyn » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 am

As the the silence is deafening on this one until we hear that now it's been purged correctly of all air present and in on all six research does indeed indicate that the Trike from the sixties is not the same as the Trike main ingredient of the engine degreasant I use regularly today.
I suppose in terms of modern description you get a better class of hangover type symptoms from today's type formulae than you did from the sixties make up sniff wise.
I do hope we hear as to why the dead engine syndrome exists, for example has some wag worked on the timing gears re valve /injection timing and up anchored and left it for someone else to sort out?
Or is it in on all six now that the hidden shut off valve has been located?
Sticking my neck out on this one could it perchance be one of those things that embarrassment dictates that we will never know the true outcome?
Seems very strange to me that it has not been sorted, as I still have some storage facility left in my pea size brain I need to further my thirst for knowledge so I fervently hope that this problem is not to be exhausted to atmosphere as several fore runner problems have.
Confession/ownup/ admit time maybe?
In writing Reading Martins last write up on this subject I do hope by the Ha-Ha speech that he has not been sampling the product to which I refer, the new abridged version or maybe from his old stock the much more interesting old formulae.
Remembering The Good Old days, when Chiefs stood watches and all Torque settings were F.T.


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