Cruise Ship Fire

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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby jimmys » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:26 pm

The engine room was full of white smoke, I dont think a carbon base fuel was burning. Number 5 engine failed it was outside the control room.
I am not sure about the engine room layout and I do not have drawings and the electrical details are what is approved by Lloyds for this type of ship.
The breakers could be anything, Air breakers, vacuum breakers or even sulphur hexafluoride. The only thing I am sure of is that due to the size they will be around the maximum time of two cycles to clear mechanically. A lot of damage can be done in that time.
I just get the feeling reverse power is part of the problem.
For Class 1 passenger ships the emergency board is supposed to power up on auto. At the top of the interconnector the breaker trips due to the blackout, disconnects the interconnector which may be damaged and the alternator powers the emergency board. According to JohnHeald this did not seem to happen.
It would normally supply a lot of the bridge, fire pump,emergency lights, one steering gear, one lift key locking, for casualties and emergencies and I cant remember what else now. It will be a substantial engine.
All the breakers are opened on the main board, the damage isolated and the interconnector checked and the emergency board interconnected to the main board. Bogs and a fridge can usually go off the emergency alternator. Cooling off the emergency fire pump. A hell of a damage if you cant do this, all the bus bars gone. As we all know sections of the bus bars can usually be removed.I have tested this system but not this ship.
A lot to answer here. This is a Panamanian ship I dont know whats there. Panamanian rules.

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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby Big Pete » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:02 am

If there was a major crankcase explosion it is likely that the cooling water system was damaged and leaking into the hot engine or fire, if there was a fire, generating large quantities of steam (white smoke).
I have seen this on 2 ships where we had the main engine piston seize and crack the liner, the whole engine room disappeared in a cloud of steam.
I can not imagine Class permitting a ship to be built where the main Generator sets can not be started manually, locally. In a blackout situation there is no problem with synchronising the genny onto the board, because the board is dead. You only have to run up the D/A and bang the breaker in manually.
Possibly the crew were unable to isolate the cooling for the damaged generator and therefore could not run any of the generators because of lack of cooling??
Martin was saying this was a large open plan Engine Room, with little attention paid to survivability, so I do not suppose there were two seperated cooling systems installed, with half the engines on each, as there would be on a DP2 ship.
From the Cruise Directors Blog I thought the lifts were working and that there was power on the bridge for the emergency equipment presumably supplied from the emergency D/A.

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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby jimmys » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:37 am

Hi Pete

As far as I know there is two separate engine rooms three engines each. I do not know if there is separate alternators a lot of the motors are on 10kV and 440v, 220v etc is transformed from the six main engines. A system like this has been approved, Lloyds were Class approver. As you know large hotel services are required even in port and one or two of the six mains runs.
You will most certainly be able to start and run on manual locally and because they could not power up the board makes me think a central synchronising section. I think when the fire flared up again that was them trying to close an engine on.
The 12v and the 16v common rail engine runs across a small range and you shut down and start engines to keep them loaded up. They are well advanced and the early injection leads to high peak pressures to increase power. The high stress area in these engines is the gudgeon pin, especially oil holes. The high peak pressure and the general stiffness of the whole unit engine and alternator, can cause fatigue in the pins. A fracture at the pin and its all gone. Maybe no graviner a lub oil stop.
Maybe some pics will come out they are usually in the press you cannot stop the mobile phone cameras.

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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby al2207 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:41 am

I had one line of ''COSTA VICTORIA '' it is a similar ship www.sam-electronics.de
there are 6 generator of 13mva each with 2 swbd. linked by tie
if the swbd were flashed over and they tried to force one gen on line it will short circuit again
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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby jimmys » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:58 am

Good for you Al a nice little picture, pity no dolly birds in it. It is similar if not the same as the plan I saw. If no 5 breaker does not clear at the engine failure the other five engines will drive it. Plenty power there and the current will take the easiest path.
Reverse power is normally 3% for turbine and 10% for diesel but???

Reverse power requirement is normally a mandatory requirement of Lloyds rules but it may be replaced by electrical interlocks or contacts which will respond to the varying conditions. This is for main propulsion breakers. I wonder! I wonder!

A switched interlock between the boards even easier to isolate. I think the Splendor is not so splendid. I would fully expect competent officers to get something out of that lot even after an engine failure.

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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby Matthias » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:49 am

I worked on a couple passenger ships that were by the same yard as the Splendor. There were two separate HT and LT cooling circuits for the four engines, with cross connections which were normally kept closed. We did have a problem with a flexible coupling splitting on one side of the system resulting in the loss of the majority of the cooling water for all of then engines since it became apparent that one of the cross connection valves was passing significantly. Not fun, considering it happened just after we left port and we were black ship with a strong wind pushing us towards the rocks. After the incident we beefed up the cooling water filling pipe size, 3/4" pipework was are biggest hold up in getting the engines back online.
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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby jimmys » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:59 am

It is unfortunate but these ships are what we call rule ships, they are built to the minimum standard under the rules. If there could be a giant slot machine in which the punters put gold eagles down around the engines the engines would be magnificent. There is no such slot machine and I am afraid the engineering is anything but magnificent.
Usually the cooling systems are plate coolers and you are correct, it is all cross connections to keep cost down. Under the plate cooler is the pile of muck where it leaks, half fresh and half salt. Difficult to clean the coolers.
This engine is I think developed off the Vasa 32 a 320mm bore engine and in a V12 developed about 4500kw. This engine in a 12V46,a 460mm bore engine develops around 15,000kw, We are talking about 3.5 times it in about twenty to twentyfive years even though a bigger bore. It is right on the line for this power.
Interesting to see what caused the crankcase problem.

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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby JK » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:57 am

Thank you for the excellent information, Gentlemen. I am finding it quite enlightening.
I freely admit that I might be wrong, please correct me if you know so.
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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby aidanmoore » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:25 pm

I read the Captain's blog regarding the fire. Reading his blog, he was firm and controlled and with that have not caused extreme panic to the passengers. However, the result of technical investigations fast would be appreciated. to avoid similar incidences.
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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby al2207 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:02 am

Have a look on US coast guard security bulletin on fire system warning for cruse ship
CO2 system 1
CO2 system 2
It do not refer to a specific ship ;but it is relevant to this topic
If the electrical system was in line with the CO2 system desing not surprising there will be problems.
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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby JK » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:10 am

According to a Jan. 21 report from the Associated Press, Carnival Cruise Line’s vessel Splendor is under its own power to San Francisco for further repairs. The vessel is scheduled to accept passengers for a trip by Feb. 20.
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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby The Dieselduck » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:37 am

Two recent USCG safety bulletins attributed to the Carnival Splendor engine room fire, highlight some very serious fundamental issues with the vessel and its building and management. Bordering on the "shocking"... and this is just some of the findings on the fixed firefighting system, and long time idea in shipboard firefighting techniques. Its kind of scary if this basic stuff failed so miserably, these would indicate a major problem in the way things are managed and done at numerous level, as mentioned before.

I think many entities have much to lose if too many of these findings start coming to light; with thousands of passengers on board, this is a scary though.
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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby JK » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:29 am

It wasn't long after these bulletins were issued that we received a message from Kidde that the installed system was not one of theirs!
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Re: Cruise Ship Fire

Postby JK » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:52 am

I have read elsewhere that costs, including loss of business were in the 65 million range and that 110 miles of wiring was replaced. There is a new engine and two new alternators. I wonder if it will ever be released exactly what occurred.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4380

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