Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

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JK
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Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by JK »

I was poking around on MERX, which is the online site for government requests for goods and services and came across this:

http://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Me ... bcbQ%3d%3d
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Re: Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by The Dieselduck »

I think this is the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time. I don't understand what financial benefit could be generated to the government, and quite the opposite. They already have a workforce to deal with this in Marine Safety. If the government does not have the faith in them, perhaps they need to address this with proper training and quality control. Again, I think, this is a case again of the business mindset we have seen migrating north with corporate interest seducing traditional government roles with the ideas that corporate interest are best in enforcing regulations on themselves. I am generally pretty naive, but this attitude borders on the ridiculous - one good example is the above post, where a newer ship's firefighting procedure from the yard are so far off base and misleading to border on the criminal. A situation where class authorities should have picked this up - and now the government is wanting to delegate to them. Foolish I think.

From first hand experience, definitely not a step in the direction of improving quality and safety for ships at sea. I find delegation to be an easy way for the government to dodge its responsibilities. If they choose to go this way, then cut out the entire ship safety apparatus at Transport Canada. Piss or get off the pot. Why are we paying for this service and enforcement to exist when the responsibilities are consistently moved elsewhere. I think delegation only benefits various class and ship owners. Of course the dubious relation of class vis a vis owners is a whole topic in itself; lets not ignore that class is a business and the ship owners are their clients.

I would love to hear the rational from CCG regarding this initiative, that I think is foolish and unnecessary to start with, but then again that is not surprising from CCG management.

I am sensing a general trend in my replies today... am I crazy?
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JK
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Re: Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by JK »

No you are not crazy.
I think it is the most absolutely insane thing that the government can do, getting out of regulating ships in our waters and passing the buck to class.

The really sad part is now inspection fees, which went from one government department to another now is going to an out of Canada company and going from the reasonable TC costs to what a commercial company will charge. This is all coming out of our pockets, folks!
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Re: Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by Wyatt »

Is this not the most insane thing you have ever heard. This is our tax payers money hard at work by politicians who are proving beyond a shadow of a doubt how ridiculously stupid they can be. I am sure there are many people lining pockets with this one. Utterly fathomless, why not just get rid of TC inspectors and hire some company from India or China, whoever charges the least.
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Re: Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by JK »

why not just get rid of TC inspectors and hire some company from India or China, whoever charges the least.
Actually this is the plan.

Instead of TC inspecting the ships, it will be Class.
So, instead of a Government agency inspecting a government agency, a commercial outfit will do this.
So, instead of a interdepartmental exchange of funds from CG to TC to pay the inspection costs (of what, $50? ), CG will now be paying the more exorbinant fees to Class.
That's our Tax dollars, ladies and gents! You can pretty well assured given Harper's government promise of less money next year that this will be squeezed from existing budgets.
Got a hint for you, take your life jackets, rescue might not be as handy as you think.
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Re: Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by D Winsor »

You will have to go back to Harper's predecessor and heavy lobbying by Canadian domestic shipping companies to find the impetus for the delegation of inspection services to Class in Canada and the downsizing of Ship Safety.
The fees and other costs for T/C & Class inspections can run into the thousands of dollars and can cost a company thousands in lost time especially when both inspectors can not be on site at the same time to witness a test or inspection or do not agree with or accept the opinion or interpretation of a regulatory requirement held by the other. There is nothing more frustrating than having to do or paying to have machinery tests or other inspections duplicated or inspectors from different agencies arguing over what is considered acceptable.
This practice is not unique to Canada either, many flag states defer safety inspection services to class societies for both domestic and international fleets. Class societies have offices and the infrastructure around the world flag states do not.
I agree however that government inspectors should do the inspections on government owned vessels unless there is an issue of insurance liability
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Re: Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by JollyJack »

D Winsor wrote:You will have to go back to Harper's predecessor and heavy lobbying by Canadian domestic shipping companies to find the impetus for the delegation of inspection services to Class in Canada and the downsizing of Ship Safety.
Ship Safety is in the business of getting out of the Inspection business. The reaction to the incident at Tobermory, where some kids were killed when the tour boat "True North II", and the death of some old folks behind Parliament Hill in "Lady Duck" sank was to delegate all small passenger vessel inspections to owners under "self inspection". This limits TC's liability. The Canada Shipping Act 2001 puts the onus for safe ships and competent crews squarely on shipowners, Section 106 says:

106. (1) The authorized representative of a Canadian vessel shall
(a) ensure that the vessel and its machinery and equipment meet the requirements of the regulations made under this Part;
(b) develop procedures for the safe operation of the vessel and for dealing with emergencies; and
(c) ensure that the crew and passengers receive safety training.

Duties re Canadian maritime documents

(2) The authorized representative of a Canadian vessel shall ensure that

(a) the vessel and its machinery and equipment are inspected for the purpose of obtaining all of the Canadian maritime documents that are required under this Part; and
(b) every term or condition attached to a Canadian maritime document issued in respect of the vessel or its machinery or equipment is met.

The Act does NOT say WHO will inspect it. This section absolves TC of all responsibility of ensuring Canadian shipping is operated safely.

There is a safety net, and it's Port State Control. The few Canadian ships which actually do go international are inspected under this regime. Unfortunately, Canada is "Grey List" in the Paris MOU. Out of 21 inspections of Canadian ships in Europe, 15 had deficiencies. If you ignore one vessel which had 4 inspections with no dificiencies, it 15 out of 17 failures!

Check out www.parismou.org
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Re: Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by JK »

Self inspection does not give me the warm and fuzzies.
Tell me JollyJack, I read it that the TC fellows are protected under the CSA when they inspect.
How about anyone else?
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Re: Delegation of Inspection Services Canadian Coast Guard

Post by JollyJack »

Canada Shipping Act 2001:

11. (1) Marine safety inspectors are appointed or deployed under the Public Service Employment Act.

Authorizations

(2) The Minister of Transport may authorize a marine safety inspector to exercise any power or perform any duty or function of the Minister under this Act, including quasi-judicial powers and the administration of examinations referred to in subsection 16(2), or to carry out inspections under section 211, including the following:

(a) inspections of hulls;
(b) inspections of machinery;
(c) inspections of equipment;
(d) inspections respecting the protection of the marine environment for the purpose of Part 9 (Pollution Prevention — Department of Transport); and
(e) inspections of cargo.

Certificate

(3) The Minister of Transport must furnish every marine safety inspector with a certificate of designation authorizing the inspector to carry out inspections under section 211 or to exercise any power or perform any duty or function of the Minister under this Act, including any quasi-judicial powers.

Duties and powers

(4) A marine safety inspector may exercise only those powers and perform only those duties and functions that are referred to in the inspector’s certificate of designation.

Immunity

(5) Marine safety inspectors are not personally liable for anything they do or omit to do in good faith under this Act.


12. (1) The Minister of Transport may authorize any person, classification society or other organization to issue any Canadian maritime document under this Act or to carry out inspections under section 211 if the Minister determines that the person, classification society or other organization is qualified to issue the document or carry out the inspection.
Certificate of authorization

(2) The Minister of Transport must furnish the person, classification society or other organization with a certificate of authorization specifying the documents they are authorized to issue, the inspections they are authorized to carry out and any limitations on the powers they may exercise under subsection 211(4).

Inspection records

(3) A person, classification society or other organization authorized to carry out inspections must keep a record of each inspection in the form and manner specified by the Minister of Transport and, on request, provide the record to the Minister.

Delivery of report

(4) A person, classification society or other organization that does not, in respect of anything that they were authorized to inspect, issue a certificate because the requirements of the regulations have not been met must deliver their report in respect of that inspection to a marine safety inspector.

Immunity

(5) The person, classification society or other organization is not personally liable for anything they do or omit to do in good faith under this Act.
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