US Cadets on Foreign Flag Ships

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TxMarEng
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US Cadets on Foreign Flag Ships

Postby TxMarEng » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:38 am

What does everyone think about US maritime school cadets sailing on foreign flag ships? The US blasts the foreign flag operators all the time, prevents US owners from building in foreign yards but they feel it is OK to have future US officers trained by graduates of the "mate/engineer mills" of Manila and Mumbai. Talk about thrid world mentality.

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JK
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Postby JK » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:36 pm

Doesn't it make you just want to spit??

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The Dieselduck
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Learning to love racism

Postby The Dieselduck » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:00 pm

Well I always thought that the US was the "land where irony comes from", so I am a little surprised by what your saying. But I dont think you gave us enough information about the program to understand its aims.

When I took my Marine Engine Room Resource management course, the one thing that really struck me was the chapter on diversity and its uses. The goal of the chapter (i think) was to recognized that people are different - I guess you could call it racism, and it doesn't have to be in a negative context. It was there to teach us to recognize and utilize these strenghts towards achieving a predictable, and hopefully, positive goal. It is also important to recognize the weaknesses and plan accordingly.

All this to say I understand the reaction, but having worked with many nationalities, over more than several years, I think all of us have something to learn from each other. Judging by who is the dominant seafaring nations on the high seas, perhaps it is not a bad idea to get an understanding of what works.

I think it will be ultimately beneficial for any cadet to be exposed to a wide variety of training and attitudes. From my understanding most of the graduates from the maritime academies in the US are such in demand that they end up manning a desk in a large corporation quicker than they will man the control room. So ultimately seagoing staff will always have an opinion of shore side staff and vice versa, regardless of where they learn "Charles Law".
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Dieseldame
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Imaginary lines

Postby Dieseldame » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:03 pm

Personally, I wish they would do away with all the imaginary lines in marine work. Ships may work from a particular port but in reality spend most of their time in neutral and foreign territory. Seems if we could solve the standards issue and ensure that vessels are safe it could make it a whole lot easier to navigate a career in the field. Its hard enough to have the right training, find a safe boat, a good crew etc...after all flags are just colored pieces of fabric are they not?

DD

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TxMarEng
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Cadets on Foreign Ships

Postby TxMarEng » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:17 am

The US is pushing for mandated use of US Officers, particularly on LNG vessels trading in the US. While MarAd wastes untold amounts of money maintaining five (5) old hulk training vessels for state maritime academies and "Queens Point" relies on cadet shipping on commercial ships now all of a sudden a few former US flag operators who have flagged out their fleets have begun offering cadet slots on their vessels. Of course they will likely get some compensation from MarAd so their motives may not be purely "professional". There are many excelent engineers sailing under many flags but I don't personally agree with the levels of standards at schools in such places as the Phillipines or India. A lot of this effort has been pushed by the American labor union AMO or "Almost Officers". They are touting years of experience on LNG vessels although it was District 1 MEBA who has the most experience in LNG operations in the US. AMO only got the LNG vessels by default after they were flagged out foreign. The remark made by one poster about graduates going straight to desk jobs is for the most part true. Saw a port engineer the other day without a trip under her belt. OSG and the former Maritrans are famous for that.

Now they want MarAd to take over the licensing and inspection duties from the USCG ~ Another agency loaded with bureaucrats with no time at sea or in the industry. "Someone has a full seabag but it appears it's not stencilled". :twisted:

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carbob
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US Cadets on Foreign Flag Ships

Postby carbob » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:37 pm

What in the hell's flames is the difference where you get your seatime, as long as it is HP / tonnage applicable? I think foreign seatime is much better than beating around the coast. I've done both, but am pretty much coasting now. I did my deck cadet time on a German-owned, Philipino-crewed ship, trading from the Gulf coast to Brazil and everywhere in between. As regards to US cadets on foreign ships, what's wrong with it I'd like to know? Cadets from the Marine Institute have been cast to the winds for years, no detriment noted.

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Are we all not foriegners

Postby conrod » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:26 am

Dieseldame is quite right, as is carbob, and the IMO addressed this.

STCW 95. It allows any of us to use our National Certificate to work on our own shios, and then we go and get a CoE for the flag state of the ship you wnat to work on. We are all trained to the same level, can work any where in the world, we have the White List; what more could you want !!

Right, have you ever seen so much BS. As I have said many times, I have no problem with jobs for the boys, but money talks, and the less you want, the better your chances are of a job. The more you put up with the better your chances. The restrictions have been put in place by our own flags, and companies. They dictate to the IMO, the IMO move an act, and so we " progress " ?????

I take my hat off to those that still have a few scruples, and those that want to get into this industry, it can be very rewarding, but we are no longer considered in the same high regard. Ships engineers are fast becoming pawns on the International chess board. Just another thorn in the side of commerce, so rules will be manipulated to accomodate the situation.

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Irony of the situation

Postby TxMarEng » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:30 pm

Point I was trying to make is that the US unions and government officials have for years complained about flag of convenience shipping and the "dangerous" untrained crews they perceived to sail on these ships. Now they have forgot all about that and look to flag of convenience ships for training the "brightest of the bright" aka the schoolship crowd. I'm all for jobs anywhere they may be had however, just had to listen to all the BS about flag of convenience shipping for too many years from the union types.


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