New engine

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JK
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Re: New engine

Postby JK » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:19 am

Regarding the ferry, I have read that she had added cabins installed in the upperdecks to increase passengers.
This shifts the weight up. If you took up space lower down with something like foam, the vessel becomes unstable and topples when added weights are applied carelessly. As Big Pete says, the tanks lower down are meant for fuels, oils and ballast.

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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:38 am

He's trying to tell me that my suggestion regarding foam fill voids on the ship is impossible to achieve. I do not know who is in this business, but I think that it is mandatory to introduce new legislation , such as a requirement to double bottom and sides . These provisions were introduced , despite a large increase in the cost of ships. Thanks to saved many lives . Here 's that simple calculation This ferry has dimensions of 10 mx 15 m = 160 m ^ 2 part flotation technique 150 x 146 = 21900 m ^ 3 ( cubic ), meaning that he does not have to sink to be additionally about 5,000 tons displacement , which is 5000 empty space to fill with foam .. it is about 20% of the flotation technique space ship .. So simply if the ship was higher by 20% , it would surely already be unsinkable . costs of those that do not have anything open spaces of the ship , filled with foam , would not be higher than 10 % of the total vessel. So money is not the real motive here that so far does not. Even now considering that insurance ( Loyd ) found that both theoretically and practically can not sink would have to be much smaller. Insurance , relatively high pay each year , when the ship is being used .. or even 20 years. I think the insurance collected annually from submersible vessel in the sum is certainly greater than the 10 % percent increase in the cost of the ship. I think that when it comes to passenger vessels , this should be the rule , because human life has no price .. And please do not convince me that it should not be . Because something is not possible. It is possible , and therefore publish this , where professionals from the safety of the vessels may be reading this .. 8)

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Big Pete
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Re: New engine

Postby Big Pete » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:49 am

Hi Felix,
I am not telling you that your idea is impossible. However, it is impractical.
If you fill the Double Bottoms of ships with light weight foam you will then have to move all the heavy liquids that are normally stowed in them into new tanks built higher up in the ship. (if you could find space for thousands of tons of fuel and water higher up) That will make the ship top heavy and it will just roll over and sink before it even leaves harbour.
If you built the ship 20% taller as you suggest that would also raise the centre of gravity and again make it top heavy so that it rolled over.
I can not see any advantage in filling the tanks with foam, each tank forms an independent watertight cell, so the double bottom of a ship is just like an enlarged piece of foam.
If you followed the thread on the Korean Ferry accident you would see explanations of what happened, why and sensible suggestions to prevent it happening again.

Similarly with aircraft, I have always understood that aircraft wings contain all the fuel, so there will not be a lot of space left for foam.

All the best,

BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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JK
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Re: New engine

Postby JK » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:17 am

the other issue is whether a foam product will react with the environment, i.e. steel, sea and fresh water, oil, aluminum and so on.
It is not as simple to pump it in and forget it. You have to monitor to ensure that there is no breakdown of the foam that could accelerate corrosion of the ship material. Flammability is another issue or toxic gases being produced as the foam breaks down.

Ships are very sophisticated pieces of engineering not something merely floating on the water

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Re: New engine

Postby Big Pete » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:49 pm

There s also the issue of internal inspection of the tanks. All the regulatory authorities require internal visual inspections of the tanks and pressure testing through the life of the ship, and Ultra Sonic thickness testing of the steel plates, how can you do any of these things if the tank has been pumped full of foam?

If the Hull is damaged and a section of damaged steel has to be cut out and new steel welded in, what happens to the foam?

Lots of practical difficulties.

BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:43 am

Big Pete wrote:There s also the issue of internal inspection of the tanks. All the regulatory authorities require internal visual inspections of the tanks and pressure testing through the life of the ship, and Ultra Sonic thickness testing of the steel plates, how can you do any of these things if the tank has been pumped full of foam?

If the Hull is damaged and a section of damaged steel has to be cut out and new steel welded in, what happens to the foam?

Lots of practical difficulties.

BP


It is a pity that very carelessly read my posts and you watch my pictures .. clearly wrote that it does not have to be foam, but moldings, such as in this link

Also on section plane wtraznie can see that but there is a lot of free The places, and not how you think you .. Here is another one photo of the crash TU 154
I think that you should carefully read my poste, and certainly you will become a proponent of my solutions, and we will not have to cry after drowning our children in the future :(

Image

Andrew 8)

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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:15 pm

So they go on the road foam, administer (at least for ships) foam glass, which is maybe a little heavier than styrofoam, but it resists 600 degrees Celsius temperature ..

to get the buoyancy as the ferry Sewol, it would have to be about 800 tonnes of such glass foam .. the same as the volume of polystyrene...

http://www.astra-polska.com/index.php/c ... g/penostek

http://www.geocell-schaumglas.eu/upload ... a_engl.pdf

http://www.uctm.edu/journal/j2013-2/1-Lakov_125-129.pdf

https://www.google.com/search?q=Foamgla ... 78&bih=486

http://www.foamglas.pl/produkty/produkcja-foamglas

Andrew 8)

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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:27 am


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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Wed May 14, 2014 2:59 pm

All of these flaps, ailerons and rudders are completely empty inside .. You have to be flame-retardant foam fill special for these air targets, and made in the form of fittings.
Clearly, the wings are half the space
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Also in the hull filling soundproofing could have been a foam instead of wool.
Wool absorbs water very quickly ..Surely you would need to develop now and again a special material, teeth had been closed and not soaked with water. and was close to the damping properties of wool. It is a big challenge, but with the quantity of aircraft produced, certainly to perform .. It's just to follow in this direction

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Andrew:

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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Wed May 14, 2014 3:00 pm


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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Wed May 14, 2014 3:00 pm

Well think again about the Red Baron. something on you tube not much you can see these vibrations..

The effect of two teaspoons on the wings of aviation profile facing each other stomachs. Wind from an ordinary hair dryer ... you can hear the clatter of high-frequency wing strokes of each other. That is, the vacuum, despite the very light wind is enormous. Disappears, as the wings come closer and then again .. Hence arises the clatter.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10 ... 6928125097


Andrew :D

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Feliks
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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Sat May 17, 2014 4:30 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bocolo View Post
But the wings will be damaged when they start banging each other. Right? /

No Bocolo, this film is just a demonstration, designed to show that between wings have been observed even small wind evolves very large force, which causes a vacuum. . It falls, but sparkled with momentum hits for himself .. because a large force was driven to such behavior. Of course, between the wings should give solid struts, which will determine the distance between them, chosen in the laboratory and Unclassifiable biggest Underpressure .. Then the vacuum should enter into the slit inside the wings of NACA FELIKS and further from the center of the wings for the help of some pipes, where we will be the most comfortable .. Of course at the end of the pipes have to give some engines vacuum, for example, a simple turbine, or a vane pump working as a motor ....

Andrew :D

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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Sat May 17, 2014 4:31 pm

Here drawings like two wings facing each other bellies they give huge wind acceleration and negative pressure which we introduce inside the wings. If the wings will be mounted permanently, with sufficient clearance between them, and may be greater plenty of slots, a big part of the lift force will turn on underpressure which will be inside the wings could create a fairly low pressure and large its quantitative yield .. If so it will already know how to use a vacuum with a good efficiency, for example by the vane pump is running, vacuum-as a motor ... the motor can drive the generators or.... propeller ...

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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Sat May 17, 2014 4:36 pm

And now the strangest thing .. On the screen shots from the simulator to the airfoil published by NASA, pointed red frame so strange two values that can be set on the simulator .. Namely, in terms of drag and lift. and would not have believed in their value, if not the simulator, which included such a serious company like NASA .. In the first image you can see that the drag is set to 21 Newton.Lift has until 244 Newton .... So for the help of a smaller force is a much more powerful .. Something with anything ... this force is with 11.6 times greater than the resistance (drag).

In the second figure also drag is 12 Newtons, and lift 191 Newtons .. ie with 15.9 times greater ..
I think that these simulations are accurate ..
Now, if even half of the value obtained for lift holding strength to produce the drug's effects, it would lift force will be very high ... So we use 85 Newtons of lift to overcome the resistance (drag) 12 Newtons. that is enough for us to capture power efficiency, and conversion to drag about 14%. (eg rotary vane pump + propeller). I think it is really to do with such a small sufficient efficiency .. So the system can move itself by overcoming drag and float in the air At 85 Newtons lift .. I guess that NASA is wrong ...
So says the theory .....

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Re: New engine

Postby Feliks » Wed May 21, 2014 7:24 am

Rely on nice weather I visited on a walk Aviation Museum in Krakow, to see what's new, you can see .. Oh, and I saw a passenger plane Ilyushin Il-14, which was taken off the canopy flaps wings .. Turns out there can be visible between the ribs on the insert shapes Styrofoam quite calmly, there's nothing there, outside the free space .. judging by the number would be that of the keel cubic meters ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-14

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