Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

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jimmys
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by jimmys »

I see from the latest satellite pics the oil boom is now out around the adjacent headland. The bunker oil will not float it has a high specific gravity above 1.000. Marine diesel and lubs will float. The heavy oil is difficult it swills around the rocks and kills everything. JK is right a big problem for them. Need to get it out, 2400 tonnes on board.

JFC
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by JFC »

The hole in the hull where the piece of the uncharted rock has moved to, appears to be into the machinery compartment.

Do we know if any of the souls that still remain missing are engineering personnel?

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JK
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by JK »

Thanks JimmyS, I had it in my mind that the ship had MDO as bunkers.
Smit will have a dandy job emptying the FO tanks.

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JK
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by JK »

In a leaked interrogation transcript that surfaced Wednesday night, Captain Francesco Schettino admitted to investigators that he went too close to the shore of the Tuscan island of Giglio.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... /comments/

The clowns are running the investigation.

JimmyS, I hope you are still reading.
The press announced that the Italian judicial system in the form of 3 judges interviewed the Captain.
Yet, I have not seen any mention of any investigation happening by any Marine authorities. Do you have any idea of how the proceedings happen in Italy?

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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by Wyatt »

I am sure this Captain is not superman, but this one is certainly a sham! An embarassment and so undignified, just listen to him speak and try to justify what he did was safe!!!! He is a complete fool. This should give you some idea of what he did NOT do. http://gcaptain.com/former-cruise-line- ... ped/?37824

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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by jimmys »

Hi JK,

As far as I am aware what is happening now is criminal procedure.A Senior Italian Administration Surveyor will be supplied to assist the judges with marine law, shipping navigation etc. He will do nothing else. Another Senior Italian Administration Surveyor will be supplied to the Prosecutor. The prosecution Surveyor attends Precognitions with all the lawyers and assists in briefing the defence of the case. Everything must be disclosed to the defence. Mr Schettino and his lawyer must supply their own experts.
Even now the Bench Surveyor will be briefing the judges on the rescue, the accident etc. If he needs an engineer for parts he will be supplied. He is an expert. The prosecution Surveyor will be assisting the Prosecutor in bringing the case forward. He testifies for the prosecution where the bench surveyor does not. He is an expert witness as against an expert for the bench.
The investigation is carried out by the Italian Accident investigation and any testimony to it cannot be used at trial. Mr. Schettino is compelled to answer all questions to the investigators he has no right to silence and cant lie. The investigation can start right away and should publish quickly in case of urgent problems for IMO to consider.
It is all IMO procedures and similar world over. International Marine Law.
As you know this is a really bad one, navigation error, rock impact, engine room flood, emergency power, drifting, further grounding, blackout, severe lists, poor procedures and most of all deaths all in Italian coastal waters.

regards

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JK
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by JK »

thanks. It is difficult to sift through all of the news articles and work at the same time. I just found it odd that I never saw any mention of the Italian equivalent of our TSB mentioned.
Wyatt, I agree, but when I see leaked interview info, I think that would be the equivalent of the Mounties releasing a murderers interview prior to a court proceeding, don't you think?

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Madzng
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by Madzng »

President of RINA Resigns, Possible Consequence of Costa Concordia Incident
Wednesday, January 18, 2012
President of RINA, Gianni Scerni, has resigned. RINA, the Italian Naval Register, is the classification society that issued the Costa Concordia a certificate of seaworthiness and safety management certificate in November 2011, according to Equasis.

As the death toll from the cruise ship sinking climbs, Scerni has announced his decision to resign from the company. This may be an attempt to soothe the controversy surrounding the lack of control on board the Costa ship and the questions regarding its classification status.

Reports from Genova, Italy state that after chairing and growing RINA for the past 10 years, the president and director has made this “immediate and irrevocable” decision. The Rina group has released a statement stating their deep regret of the decision, as well as sincere thanks for his dedication and responsibility, especially involving the current situation with the Concordia.

As of Friday, January 13th, 2012, RINA has suspended the ship's class status citing other circumstances as the reason. This may be in accordance to the vessel's physical status due to its sinking. Current class status documentation of the Concordia can be viewed https://www.leonardoinfo.com/leonardoIn ... um=9320544.

Taken from the Maritime Executive Website

jimmys
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by jimmys »

The important certificate for this vessel is the passenger certificate and runs for one year. This vessel runs from 3/6/11 to 2/6/12. There is a declaration of survey and safety to be made and signed by a qualified surveyor before it can be issued. This will be the worry for RINA. Midway though the term lying on its side. They certified it on behalf of the Italian Administration not for themselves as Class. A difference between Classs and GovItaly. We will see heads to roll!!

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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by Wyatt »

I understand why the classification societies are concerned about the ramifications this tragic event will put on them. But we must all be sensible here and keep logic in the forefront. The classification of any vessel is all well and good but if the IMS procedures are not followed, especially after an idiotic attempt of bravado causes a collision into a rock wall that rips open the shell plating for 160 feet, and the same perpetrator does not have a contingency plan ready to go just in case something like this might happen! It looks quite obvious that the vessel course was deviated quite early and slammed into the rock outcropping, just as Captain Crunch has admitted, the vessel was not going straight ahead but sideways. As a mariner we all know vessels do not turn like a car!!!! But to start to test the classification societies on their own classifications, well this could become stupid. Are they now going to begin design changes to take this type of accident into consideration? Will there be some sort of air bag requirement in case a collision with a rock wall at high speed happens again the air bags will deploy? I am being facetious here and do not want to insult anyone, but we have to keep in mind that it was the action of one man that started this event and he allowed it to continue to its present outcome. At any point between giving the order to alter course to the sinking an order could have been given that would have altered the outcome dramatically, but he ignored every safety protocol there was at hand, unbelieve.

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JK
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by JK »

I can't really believe this is results of the actions of one man. I think it is the Swiss cheese effect, where many little safety issues line up to produce an accident. The company participated in allowing the practice of a flyby on an earlier trip or trips so they are complicit. I am not defending the actions of the Captain, for all I know he could be an incompetent boob, or he could be merely a person overwhelmed and shocked at the implications of a commonplace decision. Who the heck wants to be the first at anything especially an accident like this, were 4000 people have to be evacuated. But an accident was bound to happen on these big ships, and if it was to happen, the cruise industry got off lightly with the ship grounded and fairly insignificant losses. Not insignificant to the families, but to the number of deaths it could have easily been.

This is an interesting blog on Maritime Professional:

http://maritimeprofessional.net/Blogs/F ... atter.aspx

and this is even better:

http://maritimeprofessional.net/Blogs/T ... aters.aspx

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JK
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by JK »

jimmys wrote:The important certificate for this vessel is the passenger certificate and runs for one year. This vessel runs from 3/6/11 to 2/6/12. There is a declaration of survey and safety to be made and signed by a qualified surveyor before it can be issued. This will be the worry for RINA. Midway though the term lying on its side. They certified it on behalf of the Italian Administration not for themselves as Class. A difference between Classs and GovItaly. We will see heads to roll!!
]


hmmm, Canada is proceeding merrily down this road, with Transport Canada getting out of inspections.

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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by Wyatt »

I agree with you JK to an extent. But perhaps the company did not know of these course changes and subsequent closer and closer flybys? I know in my experience where the decisions by 1 person in the fleet did not necessarily mean the Office knew of this decision also. I was involved in the dismissal and firing of a fellow Chief Engineer who had had way too much to drink and ended up shutting the 4 main engines down while the tug was entering a harbour, my tug was right behind them and my Captain asked me what could have possibly happened to shut down all 4 main engines. I knew of only one way and this I was not going to verbally say to anyone, but someone had to manually shut them down. After we tied up I ran down to the tug to find complete mayhem. The 2nd engineer had been fired and I was called to the office to stand as a witness for the firing of the Chief Engineer. Seems everyone the night before including the Captain had gone on a binge and this binge continued up to the time we entered the harbour and the mysterious engine shut down. To make this long story short, it was found that the company was implicit in the Chief Engineers drinking problem due to the fact that the company had invited Management and upper ships staff to party's where liquor was offered, and since they knew he had a problem they did nothing to stop it, so they ended up giving him his job back with very very strict protocols in place which he maintained until he retired 3 or 4 years later.
But you are probably correct in your assessment of a Swiss cheese and all those holes, but then I always thought that ISM was put in place to fill all those holes. I really find it hard to wait to hear what had actually transpired, for this too me is such an insult to all of us marine oriented individuals who have put up with the bureaucratic nightmare of ISM and audits, and then this happens out of the blue.
I too am very very concerned the way TC is going, why does this always seem to happen and get explained as to its merits until someone dies and then everyone sees it as it really is, a very bad decision. I love your analogy, paedophiles in charge of the day care......

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JK
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by JK »

The sad part about TC, is the professionals on the ground I have dealt with, are against the move away from inspections and management is hellbent on peddling on furiously down the road without brakes. Management turning a deaf ear is pretty normal for government departments, it's all about salary dollars and who they are paying to be in the field and how to get rid of them and not about the business they are in.

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Madzng
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Post by Madzng »

This can not be attributed to just one man.

Bridge Team Management became a compulsory course for deck officers to take, as a direct result of incidents where individuals made bad choices and were not questioned by their officers.

Who was the officer of the watch, did he speak up and question the Captains decisions? Who else was on the bridge? If this is was an accepted practice, did the passage plan reflect the intentions of the Captain - to be honest I strongly doubt that it did..

Were questions asked ? If not about the ships proximity to land, about the speed of approach and the lateness of the turning point. I would not be surprised if they only relied upon electronic navigation devices during this casualty and that there was no increased position monitoring during this "fly-by" either by plotting the bearings of land features or even by GPS positions.

Not only has the captain failed here, but the whole bridge team management concept needs to be investigated.

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