P.Eng after 1st Class?

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Matthias
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P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by Matthias »

Has anyone applied to one of the provincial associations for professional engineers and found out what they accredit a 1st Class ticket at and what is required to get your P.Eng without actually having a 4 year undergraduate degree in engineering?
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The Dieselduck
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by The Dieselduck »

Sorry bud, looks like your stuck in the eternal purgatory known as shipping... ehehehe.

Have you tried contacting the Professional Engineers of BC? http://www.apeg.bc.ca/. I myself have not considered it but it certainly would be a logical progression of career.
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by JollyJack »

I contacted APENS (Association of Professional Engineers, Nova Scotia) and I was told that if I paid several hundred dollars, I could apply for assessment. The money was forfeited whatever the final decision was. I was also told that only members of APENS could call themselves "Engineers" in Nova Scotia, that it was illegal under Nova Scotia law for anyone else to call themselves "Engineer".

I sniggered at that and told them that, where Nova Scotia has a population of a small city, less than 900,000, my Certificate of Competence complies with the worldwide STCW standard and is valid internationally. Self-important "big fish in little ponds" really don't count for much, do they?
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JK
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by JK »

LOL, once upon a time, I wrote my stationary engineers papers. They were kind enough to let me write a 3rds because I had a 2nd steam. A couple of years later, much to my surprise, I realized it was expired because I hadn't paid the yearly tax to keep it renewed. :roll:
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by Matthias »

Well it definitely seems like an uphill battle which might not be worth fighting. $500+ to apply, and then the possibility of up to 9 exams (at $350 a pop) to meet their academic requirements.
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by The Dieselduck »

Jeez, who knew an engineer meant taking soo many damn exams all the time.
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by Brad »

Agreed.
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by lotusbose »

To get P. Eng., you require 4 years' engineering bachelor degree in Marine engineering - this is the academic part of requirements. Any one has this kind of degree and 1st class marine engineering certificate, will be elligeble to apply. 1st class certification does not substitute academic requirment and also this is no way equivalent though. Assessment of 1st class certifcate will not normally exempt the requirement. Like Power Engineer, shift engineer, Army Engineer group and Marine engineers are not counted as core engineering level.

If anybody dig information with CCPE, will easily find these information I wrote above. You can research in APEGBC website also for above comments.

Yes, I am 1st class and have degree in Marine engineering, received P. Eng. for your note.
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by jimmys »

In the UK the Legal definition is Chartered Engineer (CEng) and registration with the engineering council. The letters CEng and others are protected by law. The academic requirement for CEng is at Masters Degree level. Bachelors Degree and Bachelors Degree Honours are not now sufficient.
I am a member of the Institute of Marine Engineering, Science and Technology (IMarEST) and they designate my name as follows :-

Mr.J. Smith CEng CMarEng MIMarEST

I am also a Member of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers (IMechE) and they designate my name as follows:-

Mr. J. Smith CEng MIMechE

You will of course note the designatory letters CMarEng involved in membership of IMarEST. This designation is not registered with the Engineering Council but registered with the individual institute. As far as I am aware Class 1 marine engineering certificates are acceptable.
I recently supplied references to a young engineer to work in China an ex cadet his qualifications HND, Class 1 Engineer, CMarEng, MIMarEST. He is in China now,full Chinese Chartered Status plus family posting. If he is sent to Canada later he will be accepted as a full professional.
In UK to practice as a Chartered Engineer you need an Engineering Council Number nothing to do with Districts, Parliament or Local Councils. My number is CEng427806.

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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by Big Pete »

As Jimmy says, it is different in the Uk, I passed my 2nd Class Motor in 1979, First Class Motor in 1983, and Extra First Class Motor in 1986.
In those days the Institute of Marine Engineers would only allow me to upgrade to Full Corporate Member on passing the Extra Chiefs, unless I wrote their own papers, I had to get several years experience as Chief Engineer before I could become a Fellow. The Royal Institute of Naval Architects allowed me to have Full Corporate Membership straight away. Corporate Memberssip of either Institute Registered me with the Engineering Council as a CXhartered Engineer.
However, it is all a time consumong process, you have to be proposed and seconded for Membership by existing Members, pay and admission fee and an annual membership fee. They are not Tax deductible and no shipping company will pay anything towards the cost, although if you work for Class they will pay the fees.
Both Institutions recognised the Extra Chiefs as being the Academic equivalent of a normal University Engineering Degree, so I had no papers to write.
I became a. F.I.Mar.E, M.R.I.N.A., C.Eng.
Looooooong time ago!


Shortly after (I think 1 year) I passed the Extra Chiefs they changed it from a one year course into two 18 month modules. By then several Universities, such as Newcastle and Sunderland were offering people with a Chiefs ticket 2 year degree courses, missing out the first year, as you could get Government grants to go to Uni but had to pay your own way to get tickets, everyone subsequently went down that route.

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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by jimmys »

I used to be on the Scottish Branch Committee of the IMarEST and I asked a member what the situation was regarding the qualification CMarEng, ie Chartered Marine Engineer.
He says brought in recently and awarded and registered by IMarEST under a section of the rules called, Assessment of Applicants without Exemplifying Academic Qualifications.
I asked how many awarded and the answer "Lots". They need the money.
Class 1 engineers are recognised.

regards
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by JK »

The Dieselduck wrote:Jeez, who knew an engineer meant taking soo many damn exams all the time.
LOL, don't think getting your Chiefs puts a stop to that Martin!
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by lotusbose »

The C.Eng from UK is highly regarded and respected all over the world including Canada. But this does not transfered itself to get P.Eng in Canada without a bachelor degree or the candidate will be alloted examinations(5 to12 papers with UK C. Eng) in addition to common papers of Engineering Law and Ethics.
I know people with C. Eng(after 1st Class, UK with HND etc) wrote many papers to get their P. Eng.
Note that except a bachelor degree from UK, all HND, competency Certificate from UK/or Canada are considered a diploma in Technology in General in Canada and not eligible to become P. Eng.

Yes, in UK, to get C. Eng, you need a Master degree with matching equivalent B. Eng(Honours) - both requirements necessary with 7 years of experience, and forget to get it only by first class or extra 1st class now.

Also, note that as per Transport Canada, you will not get 1st class competency certificate also in Canada on the basis of your certificates from UK without challenging examination and oral examination together. But I do not believe that this makes Canadian certificates anyway higher than UK or India. This is Canadian profession protection regulations, you like it or not and goverment had legislated these rules in Canada.
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by JollyJack »

From the Canada Shipping Act, 2001

89. (1) If the government of a foreign state has entered into a reciprocal arrangement with the Government of Canada to accept certificates of competency issued under this Part in lieu of certificates of competency of that state and if the Minister is satisfied that the requirements under the laws of the foreign state for a certificate of competency meet or exceed the requirements under this Act, the Minister may direct, subject to any conditions that the Minister specifies, that the foreign certificate may be accepted in lieu of a certificate of competency issued under this Part.

Canada has not entered into a reciprocal arrangement with any other state to accept Certificates of Competency. There is a Memoradum of Understanding between Canada and USA that Certificates from both countries are accepted by both on the Great Lakes. It is not, however, a "reciprocal agreement" as defined, but a MOU, just like Port State Control. Canada is signatory to both Paris and Tokyo MOU on Port State Control.
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Re: P.Eng after 1st Class?

Post by jimmys »

Canada is on the STCW white list and accepts all other white list countries certificates as it accepts its own. The UK accepts all certificates on the white list as it accepts its own.
Canada as well as the UK has accepted that Panama and other certificates are exactly the same as its own. Google STCW white list.
Please please tell me its not true and Canada is not on the white list....... its all a mistake. I know UK is on it and its not a mistake.

regards
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