First Methane fueled engine

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JK
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First Methane fueled engine

Postby JK » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:28 am

Just how clean are these engines when you open them up?
After 4 months away on a ship burning HFO, the carbon was embedded into my skin to the elbows after engine work.


Japan’s Mitsui Engineering & Shipbuilding has completed the world’s first ME-GIE ethane-operated two-stroke diesel engine. The engines will be for propulsion of three ethylene carriers, which will also carry ethane as cargo.

The Mitsui-MAN B&W 7G50ME-C9.5-GIE is the first engine in a series of three for installation in three LEG (liquefied ethylene gas) carriers of 36,000 cu m for Hartmann Schiffahrt of Germany and Ocean Yield of Norway, being built at Sinopacific Offshore Engineering (SOE) in China.

MAN Diesel & Turbo reported that ethane was chosen as fuel, in preference to HFO, due to its more competitive pricing as well as the significantly shorter bunkering time it entails.

“As a fuel, its emissions profile is also superior to HFO – in which respect it is similar to methane – and compared to HFO contains negligible sulphur, 15-20% lower CO2 and emits significantly fewer particles during combustion,” MAN Diesel & Turbo said in a statement.


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JollyJack
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby JollyJack » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:53 am

Methane as a fuel is nothing new. During the War, gasoline was in very short supply. Fortunate chicken farmers could collect the chickenshit and collect it in a large bag, usually on top of the vehicle. The methane generated was used as fuel for the engine.

London, England, wastewater treatment plant ran Ruston TA gas turbines to drive generators which provided power to run the sewage plant, which provided methane to power the gas turbines. Of course, it takes a lot of shit to power gas turbines, but that's no problem in London, the place is FULL of shit!
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby Merlyn » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:14 am

Just as well London is full of shit as it powers a lot of their buses and trucks and five people's contribution over the course of one years equates to 190 miles travelled.
I leave you to work out the toilet visits/ times five/ divided by 365 = 190 miles of travel.
Perhaps it will appear in the marine world and you will have to go on a poo refresher course in order to mark papers accordingly and further familiarise yourself with the new " input " can I say.
Very clean burn , 70 % cleaner they say, smoke tests on our calibrated smoke meter do show a very lean burn but so are the new Diesel engines over here to Euro 6 levels now.
A roll up cigarette puffed into the smoke meter sample head will give a higher reading than a lot of one year old common rail engines.
This important fact I know to be true because all the raving about the atmosphere over here makes for regular smoke test samples to be carried out and sometimes you struggle to get a reading as the things are running on fresh air.
So not having a smoker on board can sometimes be a problem when taking samples.
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby JK » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:23 am

I was talking to an engineer yesterday who is involved in TeeKays new builds. They have new LNG burning engines being installed with both gas and HF injectors in the head . Sounds sorta like a prototype with all the headaches.

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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby pac22ken » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:30 am

On a serious note... I joined a ship ~ 30 years ago a week after an engineer and three motormen died from hydrogen sulfide. They were opening an un-used sewage pipe..... they were dead in 15 seconds.


http://www.hugesettlements.com/articles/maritime-injury-pr2.htm

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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby JK » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:41 am

jeeze

That is interesting because 30 years ago, we sailed up the St Lawrence R with an oil cargo. The mate asked for the potable water tanks to be drained to 5 tonne, which I duly accomplished. The next morning he gave me a blast because I obviously hadn't as the draft marks were off....
We discovered that a sewage valve was leaking by and the holding tank full of the discharge from the treatment tank. The CE said, fix that, eh. I looked at the valve, the fact I had to scale the aft bulkhead like spiderman, the fact we were doing discharge of cargo and thought screw that, and pumped the tank overboard. I just kept an eye on the tank after that.
So, the whole point of this post is, I just realized I could have died in the middle of the night cracking open that valve bonnet and falling 25 feet. Sobering thought.

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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby JollyJack » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:31 am

H2S, Hydrogen Sulphide, (sometimes referred to as "sewer gas") is a highly toxic gas. In oil wells, it's called "sour gas" and smells like rotten eggs. The general rule is, if you smell rotten eggs, you're going to die. If you smell rotten eggs, then stop smelling rotten eggs (because your olafactory nerves are shot) lie down, you're dead.
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Merlyn
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby Merlyn » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:54 am

Question for you to Mark JJ,
You have a ship arriving that's a Methane Human poo powered machine.
It's dropped an exhaust valve.
The job is allocated to you personally.
Do you,
Throw a sicky?
Book hols?
Throw yourself down the nearest companionway ?
Pay someone else to do it?
Show you are still the hero of the hour and with no mask fitted grit your teeth and go for it?
What would you class this type of repair as?
New seat / valve?
Piston liner damage if the heads off the valve?
Next question carries max points.
What is the new term applied to what was a two stroke decoke as the engine is a human free running poo machine?
In other words a de what?
Answers in your own words please.
Could be on next years sylabus so be prepared.
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Merlyn
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby Merlyn » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:10 am

Further thoughts,
Please name in your own words the deposits substitute under each valve head ( formally carbon )
In other words what would you expect to find?
Never done one so I would appreciate what to encounter when faced with a dropped valve in case I need to go AWOL.
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby Revolver » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:10 pm

Decaca instead of decoke

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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby JollyJack » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:36 pm

You are an evil old b***** Merlyn! Like you, I'd go AWOL! Had enough of this sh1t :)
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Merlyn
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby Merlyn » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:27 am

But whether we like it or not these Poo running machines are here for good.
See MAN have just brought out a big boy that can run on all types of gas including Methane.
And sold several.
Wonder what a face full of that stuff is like versus a face full of good old hangover clearer Ammonia.
Maybe to get in training you have to do six months training cleaning out the worst public toilets in your town.
Acclimatisation courses.
Degrees in sh one t.
S.H. One, S.H. Two, and a thirds ticket might be called a third rate Sh one t ticket.
Image starting out and being asked " and what do you do? " Answer; Third rate Sh one t engineer sir.
Modern day marine engineering.
Minds running riot over here re exam questions JJ will have to mark.
Gonna be a Big Bang one day looking at the sizes of the storage tanks.
What would an exhaust blow be like I wonder. What would it be like on the old eyes and lungs?
I am thinking a lot of us folk who have more hours showing on our hour meters have had the best of it all, especially when I look at the financial side of it, three year apprenticeships , people on courses who qualify and have virtually no practical experience of the difference twixt a anti-clockwise machined liner versus a clockwise one and advantages and disadvantages of same.
I reckon this is why RR and others are trialling ships controlled entirely ( including down below staff ) remotely ships, ships that fault code read, oscilloscope actuators and sensors and ECU s and then repair them or fly in PRT teams ( Poo repair teams )
Maybe people will duck volunteering to go down below and be in the sh one t.
I could go on but I don't want to be censored as I am dreaming up what the new Fault codes might be and finding it difficult not to offend as they keep coming up with dual meanings such as " down below ? "
Gettit?
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JollyJack
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby JollyJack » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:10 pm

There will always be 4th Engineers to clean out shit tanks and unjam jobby chompers!
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Merlyn
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Re: First Methane fueled eng

Postby Merlyn » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:43 am

Now if I didn't know old JJ any better I might ensue that as a veiled threat for the fourths position.
You know the sort of thing, reverting back to youth days and starting out all over again, many years on.
Reflexions maybe?
Now every position, as JJ knows possibly better than most carries an entrance exam.
At random I have selected one from the Methane / human waste powered Poo engines entrance exam for JJ's perusal.
It's concerns the fault code PO326 which as we all are aware stands for antiknock sensor fault.
The print out from the fault code reader states,
" Problem with bottom end, cyl. No. Two, manufacturer fault. " ( in firing order naturally )
Not counted in order from the flywheel or timing gear end.
Now the question reads, is this the engine bottom end or is it a fuel manufacturing fault?
They are both bottom ends.
Maximum marks apply to this question as indeed as you can see it is essential that the correct diagnosis is arrived at.
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JollyJack
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Re: First Methane fueled engine

Postby JollyJack » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:39 pm

It's a software problem, endemic in all electronics, electronicitis.
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