Carnival Legend Steering Issue

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JK
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Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby JK » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:06 am

It may have been frightening for paxs but I'll bet the Captain just about had the big one.
Ogden Point is pretty well into the harbour. I wonder how far the ship listed.

Maybe Merlyns clutch pads got stuck.

http://www.cheknews.ca/pools-drain-dishes-fly-cruise-ship-incident-near-victoria-215232/

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Merlyn
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby Merlyn » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:27 am

Well, I heard that the skipper, knowing JK was on the headland waving decided to effect a curtesy dip in honour of JK's contributions to the site and demonstrate the new auto deck washing technique thereby reducing the crew of yet another hand.
Throught the fleet it will now be known as the JK salute.
Well it's something similar to what their PR team will come up with.
Beat them to it!
Remembering The Good Old days, when Chiefs stood watches and all Torque settings were F.T.

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JK
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby JK » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:43 am

well...


what I have to say to that fantasy is not printable!

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Merlyn
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby Merlyn » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:00 am

You wait for the PR report!
Fame at last.
Just make sure you tell them your new Lat and Long lest the cheque goes astray.
Or it might be a " just testing under live / real circumstances " Jobby.
All under control. No danger to the passys, Skipper knows what he is doing etc etc etc.
Remembering The Good Old days, when Chiefs stood watches and all Torque settings were F.T.

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Merlyn
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby Merlyn » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:50 am

I see this is yet again a ABB anzipod failure which this ship has experienced before.
It is reported on Wiki that the ship was steaming at some 16 knots and made a violent turn thereby effecting a list of some 30 degrees which it held for a few minutes before righting itself.
It also states that another ten degrees is all that it would take for it to capsize and turn turtle...
It is alleged that the skipper stated over the Public Adress System that the one engine bloken as his English was not very good.
The cruise director then came on to state that a turning valve in one engine was defective thus causing the problem?
No further explanations were offered, no spoiled / spilt drinks replacements offered and as such the company CTH ( cranked the handle ) of hundreds of passys who, encouraged by approaches from the specialist ambulance chaser lawyer specialist boys are launching yet more claims against Carnival.
One couple having dinner in the restaurant adjacent to a picture window stated that the meals and drinks disappeared from the table together with the view from the window which changed from the horizon to a solid wall of water passing by, a view which lasted for several minutes?
The Company state the Clinometer angle was nearer eight degrees but alas for them the advent of mobile phone cameras carried by the passys clearly show that the stated thirty degrees might be nearer the truth.
However, all is not lost as ABB have just announced an end to all this, a new Anzipod model is going to be twenty per cent more efficient than its forerunner and I see by looking at the new model it is sprayed in white by which I deduce as such it portrays a Virginial presentation and as such is not to be touched.
However looking at it I can see those problem slew gear motors appear the same as their forerunners but maybe the securing base bolts carry the very latest specification update, wing nuts for faster clutch plate changes together with welded on eye bolts so no body can " borrow " them anymore thereby increasing centre and pressure plate time changes.
Another new modification could be a three ton pulley block/ lift pull mounted over each motor so all motors can be attacked at once by different crew members.
Maybe these happenings will make it mandatory to have an endorsement to your ticket entitled " clutch plate changer on the run " certificate.
Meanwhile we await with baited breath for the next Anzipod Happening.
Remembering The Good Old days, when Chiefs stood watches and all Torque settings were F.T.

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JK
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby JK » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:12 pm

16 knots and 30* list. The old man must have near crapped.
We merely called a event like this, Monday morning (and Tuesday,and Wednesday....) on the OBO. Loosing food and drinks from the table is an icebreaker in sea. And all these pax figured they were now experienced sea going people with the stabilizers and motion reducing add-one that common sailors don't get.

Seriously though, these incidents are sobering in the implications

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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby D Winsor » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:38 am

In our modern era where just about everything is controlled by some sort of computer code you would think the anzipod control program would have been able to sense the failure and take corrective actions. If not I expect there will be review of the anzipod control program, either to add a few more lines of code to cut power in the event of a failure that would cause the ship to list, or find out why the program didn't work through sensor input failure or changes to parameters.
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Big Pete
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby Big Pete » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:06 am

Or maybe automatically reduce the power if you go over say a 15 degree list for a certain length of time?
Easy enough to smooth out the inclinometer readings over a fairly short time period to avoid heavy rolling triggering a power reduction.

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Merlyn
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby Merlyn » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:46 am

Yes, I agree with what you say Dave, / BP, You would think that the programming of the Anzipods ECU's ECM's would not have allowed the 30 degree list at 16 knots, Bet the fault is logged in the fault code side of its brain, in that 72 legged IC chip, don't know the fault code readings for Anzipods so I will have have to guess. Reckon one ECU for each electric motor and each one reporting to a master one.
B. O. 1 .= burnt out clutch for the first major safety of the ship scenario on Anthem of the Seas ( new ship ) Don't really need a fault code thrown up for that one. Tell by the loss of drive and reinforced by the stink of a burnt out clutch.
Or if you are not into Engineering just look at the wake, oh dear, there's only one!
The 30 degrees of banking on the Carnaval Legend probably threw up the fault code F.B.T. = F cked Big Time or whatever the language translation equates to.
Or it's that T piece funnel ( in red ) that they sport.
Like an aircraft a sharp turn produces lift from the funnels wing type appearance and in the aircraft cockpit even nowadays it is essential to be a good pilot that you keep the bubble ( which indicates slewing ) in the middle of the instrument between the line when banking which it would appear this ship did.
Perhaps the Skipper didn't keep the bubble in between the two lines, ie in the middle.
No computer override here like the " Limpo mode " whereby the ECU shuts the engine down when it receives info from various sensors that prolonged use may cause serious damage to the engine so it drops the rpm to much reduced revs just to maintain steerage way.
Strange in this day and age when every thing is computer controlled.
Saw a video taken by some passy of looking out from his balcony of the top deck swimming pool was poured over the ships side and well clear of same like a giant kettle into the briny, thousands of gallons, imagine being in the path of that lot and the sheer weight of it.
Child washed between the ships railings and gone forever. Bigger folk flung against the guard rails complete with broken ribs.
Another video shows all the passys being told to stand on the high side of the ship in an attempt to counter the 30 degree list.
Must have been scary down below in the ER and in the passys cheap cabins ( the cabins above no 5 cyl. Head )
Carnival have already issued statements such as " nothing really happened and no one was ever in any " real " danger and other ridiculous comments.
If you have ever seen passys going on day trips ashore and seen hundreds of people queuing up in the lounges and bars waiting to go through to the gangway you can image in an emergency what an unworkable situation it could be.
Like JJ said getting nearly 8,000 people off one of those ships is in my view unattainable in an abandon ship scenario, you would have to post them out on a one by one basis into the briny.
So are Carnival going to issue a commemorative badge for all passys to proudly wear concerning this trip?
" Been to within 10 degrees of Hell ( or Heaven depending on where your final compass course is heading ) and Survived."
Proper Sailor or What?
As a final thought did the automatic drinks robots in the completely unmanned bars continue to dispense drinks or are their ECU's interfaced with the Anzipods and either countered the list or came out in sympathy with the Pods?
See on Wifi this ship has had this problem before, blamed on a " Computor Glitch " ( as you do ) and Wifi says the Captain had to revert to manual steering to prevent the ship from capsizing ?
Don't know if this ship has a Hyabb for passys whizzing around way above the top deck, could be advertised as a Mystery Tour Trip with a free insertion in the briny every second or third circuit depending on the angle of heel attained next time this Anzipod problem occurs.
Once again I await for the next played down Anzipod problem to happen.
.
Remembering The Good Old days, when Chiefs stood watches and all Torque settings were F.T.

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D Winsor
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby D Winsor » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:51 am

What about the computer that is totally unpredictable and even harder to fix? The "Human" computer.
It is believed from what was reported that this particular incident may have happened during a meal hour which could also possibly have coincided with the change of watches.
What would happen if during the change the "Human Pilot" Computer misses a course alteration way point and puts on or orders too much wheel to compensate? Or if as part of the watch change routine the "Human OOW or AB" Computer while verifying the function of various steering systems either accidentally or deliberately switched control of the anzipods to "Independent or Maneuvering" Mode without verification that the anzipod control heads were in sync with the steering command signal.

Remember the rule from the days before "Bridge Black Boxes". If in the event of an incident caused by a failure of the "Human" Computer especially when explaining to others educated in the ways of the sea by the "Bar Robots" or their predecessors - Blame the machinery and the Engine room.
Troubleshooting 101 "Don't over think it - K.I.S.S. it"

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JK
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby JK » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:01 am

never discount the ten thumb human. We had a Captain lay a ship on its side with the Interring system. Got his fingers a little too busy on the panel and voila!

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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby D Winsor » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:08 am

I too have had to deal with Captains that thought they were "Experts" in the "proper" setup in such things as engine and thruster controls and didn't mind telling you.
One particular Captain, who thought he was an expert in all things electronic, would like to mess with the load limit and pitch range pots in an updated KA-ME-WA thruster pitch control system to "improve" thruster performance and deny doing it, that is until he was caught by a simple little trick. After being called back to the ship numerous times to reset the thruster controls once again to the "Satisfaction" of the Captain and the Captain had left the area of the control panel, the service technician went back to his bag one more time returning with a bottle of clear nail polish and placed a dab of polish on each of the pots. A couple of weeks later after yet another call from the Captain complaining about the performance of the thruster. The control panel was again inspected by service technician, the vessel manager and Chief (yours truly) and guess what, all the nail polish seals had been broken. When confronted the Captain denied messing with the controls and suddenly refused to sail the ship because the thruster did not perform as "He" thought it should.
Troubleshooting 101 "Don't over think it - K.I.S.S. it"

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JK
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby JK » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:44 am

or the Captain who blames the CE for not training him in the proper use of the bridge controls resulting in a dock contact.
Seriously...

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JollyJack
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby JollyJack » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:31 pm

Electronic controls are very reliable, they are temporary, have a finite useful life and WILL fail in order to sell expensive spare parts or new systems, because spare parts are obsolete and are not made any more. It's all about the money and ONLY the money, all the time. (Kevin O'Leary)
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Big Pete
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Re: Carnival Legend Steering Issue

Postby Big Pete » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:36 am

I still dont really understand what happened.

The passengers were told the turning valve had stuck.

The azipod is turned by Electric Motors, controlled Electronically so no valves involved.

Each Azipod has at least 2 steering motors, so if one motor, clutch or feedback unit fails, the other one will still provide up to 50% of the designed Torque. Because the Variable frequency Drive Limits the current at slow speeds the azipod will rotate at full speed but at Full ahead steering response will be slowed.

If the Ship was on Auto Pilot, and one Azipod jammed in the hard over position the Auto Pilot would have put the other Azipod hard over in the opposite Direction to bring the ship back on course.

If the ship was in manual control,and turning too tightly, the Helmsman would simply ease the Helm and even if one Azipod was jammed the other Azipod would respond and reduce the rate of turn and thus the angle of heel.

I can't imagine that both Azipods steering would fail Hard Over simultaneously.

Therefore we appear to be left with a Control problem most likely at the Bridge End. Possibly a a control lever jammed or a Potentiometer failed but I would imagine that the steering would have been erratic for a while before a Potentiometer totally failed, and the Helmsman should have been well trained to change over to the Back Up Steering system in the event of failure.

Maybe one day we will hear the full story.....

BP
It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.


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