Princess "Magic Pipes"

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D Winsor
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Princess "Magic Pipes"

Postby D Winsor » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:51 am

I found this link in Martin's Twitter Feed to an article concerning a major fine paid by Princess Cruse Line after it was discovered that "Magic Pipes" were used to bypass the OWS on the Caribbean Princess and some other ships in their fleet.

A perceived motive for the crimes was financial – the chief engineer that ordered the dumping off the coast of England told subordinate engineers that it cost too much to properly offload the waste in port and that the shore-side superintendent to whom he reported would not want to pay the expense.

Princess engineers on the Caribbean Princess indicated that the chief engineer responsible for the discharge on Aug. 26, 2013, was known as "broccino corto" (a person with short arms), an Italian expression for a cheap person whose arms are too short to reach his wallet. Some expressed the same opinion of the shore-side superintendent.

These paragraphs makes me wonder, in an era of tight economies, how rampant this practice and others like it are practiced for the same reasons and go undetected. I'm sure there are many ship owners that covet those with the same affliction in their organization.
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"broccino corto"

Postby The Dieselduck » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:27 am

Love the internet, always learning something new like "broccino corto" . My day has been made.

Notice how they make no mention of Alaska or BC, where there is so little opportunity to discharge waste like gray and black water due to proximity of land, never operated in England, but I am pretty sure they had more opportunity there. BC ha long been a dumping ground for cruise ship waste, starts as soon as you enter Canadian territory, discharge full tilt, legally. Never mind the other stuff that is illegal, like they did everywhere else. Princess alone has a huge number of ships operating out of Vancouver, as does Holland America Line and other Carnival brands.

Company is, of course, blaming crew, but after Costa Concordia, a litany of fires and such, at what point does buying shitty equipment, choosing 'pliable people', and installing unrealistic procedure come in to play. I'm sure there was bonus schemes and the likes involved as well, and lets face it 40$ million is but a drop in the bucket for Carnival, cutting corners is how you become the biggest and richest in today's world, sometimes those corners are Giglio.
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Re: Princess "Magic Pipes"

Postby Big Pete » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:37 am

So long as disposing of waste legally is expensive, then people on the ship will be pressurised by shoreside management not to discharge anything ashore.

The only solution is for all Garbage disposal from ships to be "Free" i.e. included in the Port Dues. However, if only one Port did this, it would end up receiving the whole Worlds XXXX. And ships would avoid it because of the high Harbour Dues.

It would have to be agreed through IMO that all Ports MUST accept all liquid and solid wastes from Ships without making any additional charges for the service.

That is the only solution I can see that does not Financially penalise ship operators who try to comply with the Law and Port Authorities that try to encourage them.

It is always better to ask a stupid question than to do a stupid thing.

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Re: Princess "Magic Pipes"

Postby D Winsor » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:19 am

BC ha long been a dumping ground for cruise ship waste, starts as soon as you enter Canadian territory, discharge full tilt, legally.

So true, besides Canadian Waters on the coasts it happens on the Lakes as well. All you have to do is watch the AIS tracks of ships entering Lake Huron at Port Huron/Sarnia. As soon as they clear the channel, rather than steam up the American/State of Michigan side of the lake there is a dogleg taken over to the Canadian side so to legally discharge waste water that is illegal in waters controlled by the State of Michigan.

Under Michigan law it is also illegal for SOLAS Class Vessels to discharge any water ballast in Michigan waters. So Deep Sea ships or Salties as they are called are regularly anchored on the Canadian side of the Detroit River to discharge their ballast and then be towed to their loading berth on Detroit or sometimes up one of the most polluted rivers in the Great Lakes the Rouge River. Go Figure
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Re: Princess "Magic Pipes"

Postby JK » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:27 pm

40 million is a drop in the bucket for them. I can't even imagine what the total waste is going overboard from 5-6000 people. That is one of the reasons, the big ships should be banned from the Arctic in my opinion.
I dealt with a CE who had worked with NCL. He was with MAK by then. He told me that he got out of it because he was jailable for whatever they were doing on the back watches that he had neither sanctioned or ordered. He saw the writing on the wall. You also have the CE who would slide down in the ER in the middle of the night when you were working somewhere in the ER and pump bilges straight overboard without your knowledge.....surprise :(

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Re: Princess "Magic Pipes"

Postby JollyJack » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:49 pm

Government ships are specifically exempted from PolRegs, so magic pipes are not illegal in CCG ships. I've seen one or two myself.
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Re: Princess "Magic Pipes"

Postby popeye62 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:03 am

As an engineer with P&O/Princess Cruises for 14 years I can assure you that this is highly unusual and very surprising. It is no way 'rampant'. The chief engineer will more than likely go to prison. It is not so long ago that passengers filmed a vessel of the group dumping sacks of garbage over the side which led to then the biggest fine, the implementation of Environmental Officers and a five year probation period.
15 ppm equipment is tamper proof and the majority of ports on the cruise itinerary have reception facilities. This is a wilful criminal act perpetrated by individuals most likely to save space rather than save money. The engineers I sailed with would rather dump it in the lido pool than the oggin. If you are not outside 12 miles or outside a special MARPOL area or the water will not drop below 15 ppm regardless of what it looks like, it does not go over the side.
D and JK let us not confuse oily water with grey/black water. FYI the discharge of waste water from a cruise ship is approx. 200l/person/day and it is generally legal to discharge grey water outside three miles from land, travelling at six knots so long as the waste does not produce a sheen on the water. Princess go further than MARPOL and limit GW discharge beyond four miles. Black water which is treated is outside 12 nm. The Sun Class ships were treating ballast water in 1992!
Cruise ships get a lot of criticism but they are usually way ahead of the rest. The risk is too great, that is why this is so surprising

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Re: Princess "Magic Pipes"

Postby Merlyn » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:09 am

Looks like Popeye was right about the penalties for pumping waste.
Rustico Ignacio ( Chief Eng.) and Cassius Samson ( the second ) of MV Ocean Hope ( cargo ship ) just got 12 months and 9 months in Prison by US authorities for illegally pumping waste overboard.
They committed perjury by trying to cover it up and got supervisory orders to be monitored after their releases for 12 months each.
The Owners await sentence.
End of career I guess and all over saving some one else ( the owners ) money.
Bet they drop them like a hot potato and deny all knowledge of the offence.
Deep shit all round you might say.
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