USS Indianapolis and other random USN topics

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JK
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USS Indianapolis and other random USN topics

Postby JK » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:52 am

GCaptain has just posted an article on this.
The incredible part is that the wreck was over 18,000 ft down or just shy of 3.5 miles.

It just shows that private contractors can find stuff deep in the ocean, yet the USN can't see a 600 ft ship approaching . Will it be mechanical or human failure I wonder.
Even the Chinese are doing editorials of the safety of the USN ships in their seas.

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Big Pete
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Re: USS Indianapolis wreck discovered

Postby Big Pete » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:12 am

Well JK,
Call me an old cynic if you like, but the USN sacked several Officers and took disciplinary action against others after their other Destroyer collided in the Sea of Japan. I suspect there is high probability that the OOW was updating his Facebook profile, or something similar, at the time of the collision.

When I went on a Kongsberg Training Course one of the instructors told us they were called out to a Dive Support ship or something similar that had two DP desks side by side so that 2 DP operators were continuously on watch, each one supposedly backing up the other. The displays on both units had failed. His investigation showed that someone had replaced the original Kongsberg Graphics Card in one of the PCs for the "Operator Interface" Eventually the DPOs admitted that one played computer games on one of the DP consoles while the other drove the ship, and that the Kongsberg Graphics card wouldn't allow them to play some of the Games they liked. so they went out and bought a more powerful Graphics card and installed it themselves, unfortunatly it wasn't compatible with the system and caused the displays to go down completely.
There has been a lot of talk over the last few years about Productivity at work not increasing, I think a lot of it is due to people spending a large part of the working day playing computer games or on their smart phones, rather than working.

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JK
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Re: USS Indianapolis wreck discovered

Postby JK » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:20 am

yes, basic watchkeeping seems to be going down the tube.

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USN Red Over Red

Postby JK » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:20 pm

GCaptain has a nice article on the Fitzgerald and the misdirection of the PR
http://gcaptain.com/editorial-red-red-u ... ot-command

My favorite statement:

Those who are responsible for the events leading up to the collision, not just those involved in the collision, are those who steered the naval fleet towards these errors. The U.S. Navy has experienced four major failures in navigation this year alone. The men who are cumulatively responsible for these incidents are the same men who are responsible for other troublesome oversights, like the widespread and pervading ignorance of US Naval Officers as to how merchant ships operate at sea. These men have not been called to face “administrative punishment”. At the very least they include Adm. John Richardson, Adm. Bill Moran, Admiral Scott Swift and, the author of the Damage Control Inquiry, Rear Adm. Charles Williams.


Is it pervasive everywhere, putting managers in place that have no direct knowledge or no experience of the marine industry, in positions that have direct control of the marine matters?

Sure there are great managers, but without that knowledge they are managing with the recommendations of others.

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Re: USN Red Over Red

Postby D Winsor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:29 am

JK wrote:Is it pervasive everywhere, putting managers in place that have no direct knowledge or no experience of the marine industry, in positions that have direct control of the marine matters?

Sure there are great managers, but without that knowledge they are managing with the recommendations of others.



I've run into the odd manager like this who firmly believe that, because of the letters behind their names, saw no need to consult with or ask questions of those who do have the practical experience to make informed operational decisions.

As a result we sometimes end up with a manager who can make really fantastic future budget projections or tell you to the Nth % how much you are over or under budget. While at the same time waste hundreds of thousands of dollars authorizing expenditures on repairs or upgrades that were unnecessary, didn't work or failed completely. Leaving those with the practical experience who have to deal consequences of these expenditures wandering around muttering to themselves and looking for the nearest pub while trying to devise ways to do a lobotomy or inflict other forms of bodily harm on the manager
Troubleshooting 101 "Don't over think it - K.I.S.S. it"

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Time & Materiels-Fitzgerald

Postby JK » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:45 am

http://gcaptain.com/bath-snubbed-uss-fitzgerald-headed-to-ingalls-shipbuilding-in-pascagoula-for-repairs/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Gcaptain+%28gCaptain.com%29&goal=0_f50174ef03-eda4705c6f-169882777&mc_cid=eda4705c6f&mc_eid=7ac07886e0
In a statement, Naval Sea Systems Command said the start date, scope, cost and the time required to fully restore the ship have not yet been determined.


This is somewhat interesting. The ship has been on the dock since early July and they don't know the scope of repair?

. “Given the complexity of the work and the significant unknowns of the restoration, the Navy determined that only an Arleigh Burke-class shipbuilder could perform the effort.


Man, talk about an open contract-time and materiels.
It makes me queesy that someone would contemplate going into a yard like that, nevermind do it. :shock:

By now you would think they would have a list of electrical/electronics, pipework, structural requirements, alignment issues, and steel replacements and a guestimate rough estimate. It must be significant $ amount.

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Re: USS Indianapolis wreck discovered

Postby Merlyn » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:08 am

Bet it will be played down big time like our lot over here.
It was only a Loc Tite jobby.
It was due to come in for a major refit/ update anyway.
As a result of coming in for the above it will now run on for X more years thus saving the tax payers millions.
The new modifications due were lifesaving and as such many lives will be saved by bringing forward these mods.
By carrying out the engine mods. you will be able to breath easier and sleep more safely at nighttime owing to much reduced emissions being pumped out to atmosphere.
Plus it will go faster and be able to knock out any missiles heading your way with your name on the nose cone.
Etc Etc Etc
Remembering The Good Old days, when Chiefs stood watches and all Torque settings were F.T.

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Re: USS Indianapolis wreck discovered

Postby Big Pete » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:49 am

There was a Class of British Destroyers a generation ago, that the Politicians became involved with designing, they took out a 20 foot length of the centre section to save construction costs, after a few years the ships didn't have the internal volume or Displacement to fit all the upgrades required to keep the systems up to date.
So, at vast expense, they fitted the "missing" 20 ft section that was supposed to be there all along.
To all the Politicians surprise, that cost far more than they had saved by shortening the ships in the first place.
However, they loudly claimed that the ships were now faster and had a longer range than before and because of the upgrades were much more capable!!
Plus ca change as you say over there.

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Shortened ship

Postby JK » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:08 am

The same thing happened in the Government fleet on the 90s.
They ended up with a shallow draft ship that was tall, short and shallow and had quirks in handling. The shaft coupling was fitted outside the hull.
A naval architect friend commented they would have been better off leaving the length in and not outfitting it and they would have had a better ship.

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Some more comments by USN

Postby JK » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:33 am

(Vice Adm. Phillip ) Sawyer, speaking Thursday at a maritime security meeting in Bali, Indonesia, thanked the navies of Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia for helping in the search for the missing McCain sailors.

"Often it is a brutal reminder that what we do is dangerous work in an unforgiving environment, requiring honed skills and constant vigilance," he said. "And even with those, bad things can happen."


I pulled this out of another article, just for the comment made by Sawyer.

Just out of curiousity, did any ship that any of you sailed in that was conned by competant officers have a collision with another ship?
Icebreaking excepted.

I really hate management double speak.

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Re: USS Indianapolis and other random USN topics

Postby D Winsor » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:42 am

None in open waters that I can recall.
I've experienced what some would refer to as a "Near Miss" in confined waters such as canals and rivers when meeting another ship. Both ships pass close enough to each other at a closing speed between 6 & 20 knots that someone could easily jump between both ships
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Re: USS Indianapolis and other random USN topics

Postby Big Pete » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:31 am

Me neither, never had a collision in 45 years at Sea, on most of that time on ships much less manoeuvrable than a destroyer and fitted with a Radar system costing a a few Hundred Dollars, rather than millions for AEGIS radar systems.
" The price of Admiralty is eternal vigilance" Still true.

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Re: USS Indianapolis and other random USN topics

Postby JK » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:23 pm

Still rumours out there that the steering failed. I assume that they have an expert that takes care of the steering gear alone. So, I wonder how that worked having to get him back there, troubleshoot and get the emergency system working.

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Re: USS Indianapolis and other random USN topics

Postby kevinstephen » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:24 am

That's the big question.
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Re: USS Indianapolis and other random USN topics

Postby Big Pete » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:59 am

This is a very big issue, warships are supposedly designed to survive and keep fighting after severe action damage, so unless springfield towing are going to send a fleet of tow trucks to follow the fleet around the south china seas to help, there is a major design fault here.
Or were the ships expected to sink if even one incoming missile got through the anti missile systems?
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