Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Hi Everyone,
I am a Second/relief First Engineer on a major cruise line and the accepted means of lock-out or as they call it “isolation” is horrifying and I cannot seem to figure out why. I believe WCB would fine these ships if these practices were conducted locally, or maybe I'm just been paranoid?
How it works,
The normal practice is, if a piece of equipment needs to be isolated or locked out for maintenance/repair it is a simple call to the ECR and tell whom ever picks up the phone (it could be me or my junior) and asks the Watchkeeper to isolate the equipment. Most likely, the junior watchkeeper will then go down and Isolate the equipment and call back to the ECR and confirms the equipment is isolated. If the work load permits, he will then return to the ECR and fill in the isolation book (which is only used and read by watchkeeprs at hand over).
The obvious problems with this system are;
• The person performing the work does not witness or test the lock out
• No signs, tags or locks are ever applied,
• Communications is sometimes by radio which can be very poor i.e. Evap #4 and Evac #4 are almost impossible to tell apart. Or was that DG 2 3, 5 or 4. "I forgot" happens all the time.
On a major cruise ship, as you can imagine, been on the 8-12 watch and in port is just ciaos, taking on water, bunkers, lube and discharging sludge and numerous other activities all at the same time, it is so easy to get rushed and just forget an isolation or assume your Third has done it, hopfully done it correctly, and just has not made it up the control room and sign off the book.
Who is there right mind does not see serious flaws in this system??
De-isolating is just the same, all it requires is a phone call to the ECR from….well anyone to de-isoltes the equipment, not the person who has performed the work and again its by a phone or radio call to me or my Third to do the de-isolation. Keep in mind that there has now most likely been a watch change to add even further confuse things. So someone completely different will now do the de-isolation. (you can imagine the problem this causes and you would be correct) Also remember, once something has been de-isolated the PMS (power management system) computer controls all stop/starting functions, not the watchkeeper.
I Unfortunately, had my Third mistakenly, de-isolate the wrong Main Engine once, while people were still working on it!!!! My First and Staff Chief were pretty upset and it resulted in the Third been breathalysed!!! (Talk about looking for a problem in the wrong area)
Permit to work you ask, what a joke, that is simply for hot work and tank entry.
The truly sad thing is, it will not be the British Officer whom will be killed or seriously injured but one the hard working, dedicated Filipino Motormen who are too nervous to speak up.
I have, "it is the accepted way, always has been and always will"… (was the reply I got)
Stay safe out there!!
I am a Second/relief First Engineer on a major cruise line and the accepted means of lock-out or as they call it “isolation” is horrifying and I cannot seem to figure out why. I believe WCB would fine these ships if these practices were conducted locally, or maybe I'm just been paranoid?
How it works,
The normal practice is, if a piece of equipment needs to be isolated or locked out for maintenance/repair it is a simple call to the ECR and tell whom ever picks up the phone (it could be me or my junior) and asks the Watchkeeper to isolate the equipment. Most likely, the junior watchkeeper will then go down and Isolate the equipment and call back to the ECR and confirms the equipment is isolated. If the work load permits, he will then return to the ECR and fill in the isolation book (which is only used and read by watchkeeprs at hand over).
The obvious problems with this system are;
• The person performing the work does not witness or test the lock out
• No signs, tags or locks are ever applied,
• Communications is sometimes by radio which can be very poor i.e. Evap #4 and Evac #4 are almost impossible to tell apart. Or was that DG 2 3, 5 or 4. "I forgot" happens all the time.
On a major cruise ship, as you can imagine, been on the 8-12 watch and in port is just ciaos, taking on water, bunkers, lube and discharging sludge and numerous other activities all at the same time, it is so easy to get rushed and just forget an isolation or assume your Third has done it, hopfully done it correctly, and just has not made it up the control room and sign off the book.
Who is there right mind does not see serious flaws in this system??
De-isolating is just the same, all it requires is a phone call to the ECR from….well anyone to de-isoltes the equipment, not the person who has performed the work and again its by a phone or radio call to me or my Third to do the de-isolation. Keep in mind that there has now most likely been a watch change to add even further confuse things. So someone completely different will now do the de-isolation. (you can imagine the problem this causes and you would be correct) Also remember, once something has been de-isolated the PMS (power management system) computer controls all stop/starting functions, not the watchkeeper.
I Unfortunately, had my Third mistakenly, de-isolate the wrong Main Engine once, while people were still working on it!!!! My First and Staff Chief were pretty upset and it resulted in the Third been breathalysed!!! (Talk about looking for a problem in the wrong area)
Permit to work you ask, what a joke, that is simply for hot work and tank entry.
The truly sad thing is, it will not be the British Officer whom will be killed or seriously injured but one the hard working, dedicated Filipino Motormen who are too nervous to speak up.
I have, "it is the accepted way, always has been and always will"… (was the reply I got)
Stay safe out there!!
Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Ditch them, go work for a company where things are done properly, a person with your qualifications should have no trouble doing that.
- JK
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Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Saga Rose comes immediately to mind for some reason.
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Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Great post Rob,
Yes I believe there is quite a bit of lip service paid to extensive "safety" procedure when the basic responsibly of safety is not fully conveyed to the actual people, who may be harmed in carrying the required work needing the lock out.
Just yesterday, I told the guys pumping out my pot tanks, DO NOT GO in the tanks, and repeated it, do not even stick your head in it ! Explicitly, but I came back to check on them and one of them is halfway in the manhole, looking like he just came out. The portable pump was difficult to place from just the manhole, but it was just a few tonnes of water, its not a big deal - we can deal with it later. I appreciate the willingness to complete the job, but right away I thought of the Saga Rose just mentioned earlier. You can have all sorts of lock out and safety procedures, but these are just tools, basic PPE really, it's no use to the people who manage these, if they don't realize the implications to their basic safety.
By the way, I have not heard from you in while, good to see your input Rob. And speaking of dark ages... I am in eastern Quebec at a shipyard, doing a dry dock in this minus 20 weather and five feet of snow on the ground. Very limited internet, I have one bar on the cell phone - if I stand at the right spot in my motel room, I don't even have a land line phone in my room. Mind you the people are very nice - the few that are here, and half of those are about to start a race across the st Lawrence river - did I mention that there is icebergs floating by at about 7 knots, ehehehe. The other half plays bowling, yes this tiny enclave has very well maintained four lane bowling hall. That's local entertainment, and definitely the technological dark age ! ehehehehe.
Yes I believe there is quite a bit of lip service paid to extensive "safety" procedure when the basic responsibly of safety is not fully conveyed to the actual people, who may be harmed in carrying the required work needing the lock out.
Just yesterday, I told the guys pumping out my pot tanks, DO NOT GO in the tanks, and repeated it, do not even stick your head in it ! Explicitly, but I came back to check on them and one of them is halfway in the manhole, looking like he just came out. The portable pump was difficult to place from just the manhole, but it was just a few tonnes of water, its not a big deal - we can deal with it later. I appreciate the willingness to complete the job, but right away I thought of the Saga Rose just mentioned earlier. You can have all sorts of lock out and safety procedures, but these are just tools, basic PPE really, it's no use to the people who manage these, if they don't realize the implications to their basic safety.
By the way, I have not heard from you in while, good to see your input Rob. And speaking of dark ages... I am in eastern Quebec at a shipyard, doing a dry dock in this minus 20 weather and five feet of snow on the ground. Very limited internet, I have one bar on the cell phone - if I stand at the right spot in my motel room, I don't even have a land line phone in my room. Mind you the people are very nice - the few that are here, and half of those are about to start a race across the st Lawrence river - did I mention that there is icebergs floating by at about 7 knots, ehehehe. The other half plays bowling, yes this tiny enclave has very well maintained four lane bowling hall. That's local entertainment, and definitely the technological dark age ! ehehehehe.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net
- JK
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Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Martin must be in Verault
Sooner you then me this time of year!!
Oh wait...sooner you anytime!
Sooner you then me this time of year!!
Oh wait...sooner you anytime!
- The Dieselduck
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Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
I am not sure if it is Verrault, but it now called Ocean Industries, part of tug outfit Ocean Group, based I believe in Quebec City. And today's high is a balmy -13, makes getting around the yard, challenging on a good day, even more treacherous.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net
Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Hello Martin,
You are on a small island called Île-aux-Coudres, about an hour east of Québec City. The small shipyard you are in used to fabricate small tugs for international export but now Groupe Océan uses it to refit their tugs. It has a greater berth capacity than they need so they also repair small vessels of other outfits like small ferries and coast guard ships. Québec city is not in the dark ages, don't mess with my hometown! Have fun in the cold guys.
You are on a small island called Île-aux-Coudres, about an hour east of Québec City. The small shipyard you are in used to fabricate small tugs for international export but now Groupe Océan uses it to refit their tugs. It has a greater berth capacity than they need so they also repair small vessels of other outfits like small ferries and coast guard ships. Québec city is not in the dark ages, don't mess with my hometown! Have fun in the cold guys.
- JK
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Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
We've never had any of our ships there, we deal a lot with Verrault which is in the Gaspe area.
It must be chilly and snowy there.
Now that I have throughly pulled the thread of topic, I will get out. Sorry.
It must be chilly and snowy there.
Now that I have throughly pulled the thread of topic, I will get out. Sorry.
- The Dieselduck
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Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Yes yes Sebastien, I meant personal technology is in the dark ages because internet is so difficult to access here, as is the cell phone. Check out the blog entry I just did.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net
Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Hello JK,
The Tracy and the Sterne have been there a few times
The Tracy and the Sterne have been there a few times
- TxMarEng
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Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
Sad day when anyone gets hurt and we have just had a recent death in the US fleet. When they built the NCL new passenger ships for US flag (Only one remaining) the AMO started an in depth high voltage electrical course for the engineers inlcuding specific training for entrance into podded propulsions systems. The basic OSH lock out/tag out system is taught at all levels of ratings and licensed officers here as well however, just like goggles on the grinder unfortunately maby just choose to skip the formalities. ALthough I have only sailed on one 4160VAC gas turbine plant I can appreciate the added safety required. Always look back to an old Navy training film froom the 60's "110VAC - The Deadly Shipmate".
BTW - 8 days till retirement!
BTW - 8 days till retirement!
- JK
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Re: Cruise Ship Lock Out procedures in the Dark ages. Why?
With the day I am putting in, that is cruel and unusual punishment.TxMarEng wrote: BTW - 8 days till retirement!