new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Going through the licensing process ? Have queries, comments, or do you need an answer to that obscure exam question ? This is the place to post.
neverstop
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new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby neverstop » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:54 pm

Hello,

With the 2017 release of STCW regulations, do the exams change a all?
Seems a 4th class can go for a 2nd engineer less than 3000kw with 6 months sea service,
or 2nd Engineer after 12 months sea service with 3 of those months on vessel over 3000kw.
Also, does 12 hour watch per day still count as time and a half?

http://www.cmsg-gmmc.ca/download/Bullet ... s-STCW.pdf

Thanks for any insight.

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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JollyJack » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:59 pm

The new Marine Personnel regulations will not be in force until some time in 2018, they're not written yet. There are some changes in the works, as explained in the SSB you attached. There will be no more TC Examinations, instead,the subjects will be covered in Block Credit Courses given at approved Institutions. These schools, of course, will not put on a block credit course until they have enough customers to justify the cost, so good luck trying to find one. Qualifying Service has been moved from the MPRs to an updated TP 2293. This has not been written yet either.

You may have noticed the fanfare about CETA, an agreement which will allow EU flagged vessels to trade on the Canadian coast. I have been assured it will be the carriage of empty containers from Montreal to Halifax only. We'll see. It should be noted that EU countries, UK, Holland, Germany etc., have "second registers" which allow third world Officers and crews to man the ships.
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby Big Pete » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:56 am

In the UK there is no longer any requirement to have any British Nationals on board any British Flag ship, even on the main Register.
I have sailed on several where I was the only Brit to have sailed on them in years. There used to be a requirement for the Captain and Chief to be British but that was dropped as being "Racist".

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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby D Winsor » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:20 am

I wonder how the KW certification limits outlined in the bulletin will mesh with vessel voyage and KW power ratings certification requirements under the Marine Personnel Regulations (SOR/2007-115) of the Canada Shipping Act? Will these new KW Shaft Output rating on certificates permit a holder of a 2nd Class Certificate valid for vessels with less than 6000KW Shaft Output rating, be able to sail on an Unlimited and International Near Coastal Class 1 vessel with a Shaft Output Rating between 3000KW and 6000KW Shaft Output rating, currently requiring a C/E with a 1st Class Certification as outlined in the MPR, as Chief Engineer?
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby neverstop » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:03 pm

that was quick! Thanks for the info. Seems like big change's that for a short while will hinder people from moving up.

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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby The Dieselduck » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:35 am

"May you live in interesting times", certainly is a thought that comes to mind with these new STCW2010 regs and TC. Looking forward to seeing how TC is going to wrap this shit sandwich up. Then again if they start putting us on par with most nations, we might have a chance to pull ourselves out of oblivion as Marine Engineers; I am an eternal optimist aren't I.
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby D Winsor » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:03 pm

The Dieselduck wrote:"May you live in interesting times", certainly is a thought that comes to mind with these new STCW2010 regs and TC. Looking forward to seeing how TC is going to wrap this shit sandwich up. Then again if they start putting us on par with most nations, we might have a chance to pull ourselves out of oblivion as Marine Engineers; I am an eternal optimist aren't I.


JollyJack wrote:The new Marine Personnel regulations will not be in force until some time in 2018, they're not written yet. There are some changes in the works, as explained in the SSB you attached. There will be no more TC Examinations, instead,the subjects will be covered in Block Credit Courses given at approved Institutions. These schools, of course, will not put on a block credit course until they have enough customers to justify the cost, so good luck trying to find one. Qualifying Service has been moved from the MPRs to an updated TP 2293. This has not been written yet either.

You may have noticed the fanfare about CETA, an agreement which will allow EU flagged vessels to trade on the Canadian coast. I have been assured it will be the carriage of empty containers from Montreal to Halifax only. We'll see. It should be noted that EU countries, UK, Holland, Germany etc., have "second registers" which allow third world Officers and crews to man the ships.



If I dare to read between the lines of JJ's post by 2019-2020 the vacuum in Ottawa will have sucked the life out of the local examination/licensing side of TC. You will then be able to enjoy the privilege of renewing your license, your passport, apply for your EI and CPP all in the same Service Canada Office. One Stop Shopping as you wait for your number to be called while sharing your optimism for the future with shipmates as you look a job board full of part time minimum wage jobs or jobs that we would have to start at the bottom to re-qualify the skills we already have.
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JK » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:54 am

That aptly describes what I see going on with TCMS as an outsider listening to people I know.
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JollyJack » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:44 pm

I officially retire in July, 2018, after that, you're on yer own!
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JK » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:13 am

and here I thought you were!

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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JollyJack » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:54 am

Not officially, yet. :)

Here is the latest, from today's missive

4.2 Officers and Ratings of the Engine Department
4.2.1 Starting January 1st, 2017, a candidate wishing to upgrade his CoC to an STCW 2010 CoC, listed in the table of ANNEX 2 (Engine), must meet the requirements set in the table of ANNEX 2 to 5.
4.2.2 TCMSS Exam Centers are required to:
4.2.2.1 collect, verify, authenticate and evaluate information and documentary evidences requested in ANNEX 3 to 5 related to the level of certificate sought;
4.2.2.2 make the required entries in CCIS systems for the issuance of a new CoC, as outlined in TP13906 (picture, date…);
4.2.2.3 make the required entries in ACES for the issuance of a new CoC (documentary evidences, dates), as outlined in TP13906, using new codes described in ANNEX 6 of this document;
4.2.2.4 prepare an electronic package that includes the documentary evidences, save it in RDIMS and forward an email advising AMSPE of the RDIMS #, using the following address [AMSPE@tc.gc.ca];
4.2.2.5 make arrangement with the candidate for the collection of the Minister STCW Certificate;
4.2.2.6 inform the candidate on the service standard of 120 business days;
4.2.2.7 collect the fee set out in Item 2 of Table of section 122 of the MPR ($27.50).
4.2.3 Examiners are not to issue “Examiners Certificate” in this process.
4.2.4 On reception of a request, AMSPE office is required to:
4.2.4.1 review and approve the request for STCW 2010 CoC on a daily basis;
4.2.4.2 prepare a plasticised “Minister STCW 2010 CoC” within a period of 120 business days from the date of the application;
4.2.4.3 make the required entries in CCIS systems (dates);
4.2.4.4 make arrangement for delivery of the plasticised CoC to the originating office.

4.3 Certificate of Proficiency (CoP) for service on vessels subject to Steam or High Voltage.
4.3.1 Starting January 1st, 2017, a candidate wishing to comply with the STCW 2010 shall meet the conditions listed in the table of ANNEX 5.
4.3.2 TCMSS Exam Centers are required to:
4.3.2.1 collect, verify, authenticate information and documentary evidences requested in ANNEX 5 related to the level of certificate sought;
4.3.2.2 make the required entries in CCIS systems for the issuance of a new CoP, as outlined in TP13906 (pictures, date…);
4.3.2.3 make the required entries in ACES for the issuance of a new CoP (documentary evidences, dates), as outlined in TP13906, using new codes described in ANNEX 6 of this document;
4.3.2.4 prepare an electronic package that includes the documentary evidences, save it in RDIMS and forward an email advising AMSPE of the RDIMS #, using the following address [AMSPE@tc.gc.ca];
4.3.2.5 make arrangement with the candidate for the collection of the STCW 2010 CoP;
4.3.2.6 inform the candidate on the service standard of 120 business days;
4.3.2.7 collect the fee set out in Item 2 of Table of section 122 of the MPR.
4.3.3 Examiners are not to issue “Examiners Certificate” in this process.
4.3.4 On reception of a request, HQ/AMSPE office is required to:
4.3.4.1 review and approve the request for STCW 2010 CoP on a daily basis;
4.3.4.2 prepare a “Minister STCW CoP” within a period of 120 business days from the date of the application;
4.3.4.3 make the required entries in CCIS systems (dates);
4.3.4.4 make arrangement for delivery of the plasticised CoC to the originating office.



5 COC THAT DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE STCW 2010
5.1 Master, Deck or Engine Officers and Ratings
5.1.1 Starting January 1st, 2017, a candidate wishing to obtain a new CoC that meets the requirements of the current MPR, but not the requirements listed in ANNEX 1 or ANNEX 3 to 5 of these instructions, will receive an examiner certificate valid for a period of 12 months, that is only valid on a vessel operating on a:
5.1.1.1 Voyage in Sheltered waters;
5.1.1.2 Near Coastal, Class 2 voyage;
5.1.1.3 Near Coastal, Class 1 voyage on the Great Lakes;
5.1.1.4 Voyage in the waters of the Gulf of St. Lawrence and Cabot Strait, up to 25nm seaward of a straight line joining Cape Canso at 45° 18.36’N, 60° 56.28’W and Cape Pine at 46° 36.81’N, 53°32.5’W (see ANNEX 7); or
5.1.1.5 Voyage In the areas of Queen Charlotte Sound and Hecate Strait, up to 25 nm seaward of a straight line joining Winifred Island at 50° 39’ 40” N, 128° 22’ 00” W, and Kunghit Island at 51° 56’ 37” N, 131° 01’ 52” W (see ANNEX 8).
5.1.2 TCMSS Exam Centers are required to:
5.1.2.1 collect and verify the information as outlined in the MPR and TP 13906 “Instruction to Examiner & Administrative Guidance”;
5.1.2.2 give to the candidate a “Notice to the Holder” (RDIMS 12509421) (see ANNEX 9);
5.1.2.3 make the required entries in ACES systems, with the addition of a “Critical Note” indicating “The candidate meets the requirements of the MPR but not those of the STCW 2010”
5.1.2.4 issue an examiner’s certificate to the candidate with an expiry date of 12 months following the date of issue:
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JollyJack » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:57 am

ANNEX 2
2.0 Requirements to obtain a CoC that meets the STCW 2010 (CoC-STCW 2010) (Engine Department)
2.1 A person who chooses to comply with the STCW 2010 and wishes to obtain a CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer (STCW)” must meet the following:
2.1.1 In order to obtain a CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer (STCW)” a person must:

1. hold a certificate issued under the MPR attesting to their medical fitness to perform the duties and undertake the voyages to which the certificate of competency applies;

2. hold a CoC as Second or Third or “Fourth Class Engineer (that meets the STCW Reg. III/1)”,or those of “Second Engineer Officer (STCW)” or “Officer in Charge of an Engineering Watch” (STCW); (see note 1 of ANNEX 3)

3. hold the following Certificates of Proficiency: (see RDIMS 10622741)
a. STCW Basic Safety;
b. Survival Craft and Rescue Boats other than Fast Rescue Boats;
c. STCW Advanced Fire Fighting; and
d. Marine Advanced First Aid;

4. provide proof of competency in:
a. Leadership and Managerial Skills; (see note 2 of ANNEX 3)
b. Maritime Law and Ship’s Business; (see note 3 of ANNEX 3)
c. English Language Skills; (see note 4 of ANNEX 3) and
d. Ship Management Practices taught using Propulsion Plant Simulator, Level 2 (see note 6 of ANNEX 3)

5. demonstrate they have the competences listed in column 1 of Table A-III/2 of the STCW Code, using the methods for demonstrating those competences set out in Section 4.1 of ANNEX 4; and

6. while holding one of the CoCs enumerated in paragraph 2, and serving in the function of an officer in charge of an engineering watch, a second engineer officer or a chief engineer officer, the person has acquired at least 36 months of sea service, on board vessels, other than a stationary MOU, that have a propulsion power of at least 750 kW, out of which a minimum of 9 months were served on board vessels that have a propulsion power of at least 3000 kW. (See note 8 of ANNEX 3)

Rights and Privileges
2.1.2 A CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer (STCW)” grants the holder the same rights and privileges as those granted to a person holding a “First Class Engineer” (that meets the STCW Reg. III/2) issued under the current MPR.
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JollyJack » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:59 am

ANNEX 2- Requirements to obtain a CoC that meets the STCW 2010 (CoC-STCW 2010) (Engine Department)
2.1 A person who chooses to comply with the STCW 2010 and wishes to obtain a CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer less than 6000 kW Power, Near Coastal Voyage” must meet the following:
2.1.1 In order to obtain a CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer less than 6000 kW Power, Near Coastal Voyage” a person must:

1. hold a certificate issued under the MPR attesting to their medical fitness to perform the duties and undertake the voyages to which the certificate of competency applies;

2. hold a CoC as “Second Class Engineer” or “Second Engineer Officer (STCW)” certificate; (see note 1 of ANNEX 3)

3. hold the following Certificates of Proficiency: (see RDIMS 10622741)
a. STCW Basic Safety;
b. Survival Craft and Rescue Boats other than Fast Rescue Boats;
c. STCW Advanced Fire Fighting; and
d. Marine Advanced First Aid;

4. provide proof of competency in:
a. Ship Management Practices taught using Propulsion Plant Simulator, Level 2 (see note 6 of ANNEX 3)

5. demonstrate they have the competences listed in column 1 of Table A-III/2 of the STCW Code, using the methods for demonstrating those competences set out in Section 4.1, of ANNEX 4; and

6. while holding one of the CoCs enumerated in paragraph 2, and serving in the function of a second engineer officer or a chief engineer officer the person has acquired at least 3 months of sea service, on board vessels, other than a stationary MOU, that have a propulsion power of at least 3000 kW. (see note 9 of ANNEX 3)

Rights and Privileges
2.1.2 A CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer less than 6000 kW Power, Near Coastal Voyage” grants the holder the same rights and privileges as those granted to a person holding a “Second Class Engineer” (that meets the STCW Reg. III/2) with an endorsement for Chief Engineer Officer on vessels of less than 6000 kW propulsion power, Near Coastal Voyage, issued under the current MPR.
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JollyJack » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:00 am

ANNEX 2- Requirements to obtain a CoC that meets the STCW 2010 (CoC-STCW 2010) (Engine Department)
2.1 A person who chooses to comply with the STCW 2010 and wishes to obtain a CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer less than 3000 kW Power” must meet the following:
2.1.1 In order to obtain a CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer less than 3000 kW Power” a person must:

1. hold a certificate issued under the MPR attesting to their medical fitness to perform the duties and undertake the voyages to which the certificate of competency applies;

2. hold CoC as Third or “Fourth Class Engineer (that meets the STCW Reg. III/1)” or “Second Engineer Officer less than 3000 kW Power (STCW)” (see note 1 of ANNEX 3)

3. hold the following Certificates of Proficiency: (see RDIMS 10622741)
a. STCW Basic Safety;
b. Survival Craft and Rescue Boats other than Fast Rescue Boats;
c. STCW Advanced Fire Fighting; and
d. Marine Advanced First Aid;

4. provide proof of competency in:
a. Leadership and Managerial Skills; (see note 2 of ANNEX 2)
b. Maritime Law and Ship’s Business; (see note 3 of ANNEX 2)
c. English Language Skills; (see note 4 of ANNEX 2) and
d. Ship Management Practices taught using Propulsion Plant Simulator, Level 2 (see note 6 of ANNEX 3)

5. demonstrate they have the competences listed in column 1 of Table A-III/2 of the STCW Code, using the methods for demonstrating those competences set out in Section 4.1 of ANNEX 4; and

6. while holding one of the CoCs enumerated in paragraph 2, the person has acquired at least 12 months of sea service on board vessels, other than a stationary MOU, that have a propulsion power of at least 750 kW, while serving in the function of a second engineer officer or a chief engineer officer. (see note 10 of ANNEX 3)

Rights and Privileges
2.1.2 A CoC as “Chief Engineer Officer less than 3000 kW Power” grants the holder the same rights and privileges as those granted to a person holding a “Third Class Engineer” (that meets the STCW Reg. III/3) issued under the current MPR.
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Re: new exams for new lisencing regs?.

Postby JollyJack » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:02 am

ANNEX 2- Requirements to obtain a CoC that meets the STCW 2010 (CoC-STCW 2010) (Engine Department)
2.1 A person who chooses to comply with the STCW 2010 and wishes to obtain a CoC as “Second Engineer Officer (STCW)” must meet the following:
2.1.1 In order to obtain a CoC as Second Engineer Officer (STCW) a person must:

1. hold a certificate issued under the MPR attesting to their medical fitness to perform the duties and undertake the voyages to which the certificate of competency applies;

2. hold a CoC as Second, or Third, or “Fourth Class Engineer (that meets the STCW Reg. III/1)”, or “Officer in Charge of an Engineering Watch” (STCW) certificate of competency; (see note 1 of ANNEX 3)

3. hold the following Certificates of Proficiency: (see RDIMS 10622741)
a. STCW Basic Safety;
b. Survival Craft and Rescue Boats other than Fast Rescue Boats;
c. STCW Advanced Fire Fighting; and
d. Marine Advanced First Aid;

4. provide proof of competency in:
a. Leadership and Managerial Skills; (see note 2 of ANNEX 3)
b. Maritime Law and Ship’s Business; (see note 3 of ANNEX 3)
c. English Language Skills; (see note 4 ANNEX 3) and
d. Ship Management Practices taught using Propulsion Plant Simulator, Level 2; (see note 6 of ANNEX 3)

5. demonstrate they have the competences listed in column 1 of Table A-III/2 of the STCW Code, using the methods for demonstrating those competences set out in Section 4.1 of ANNEX 4; and

6. while holding one of the CoCs enumerated in paragraph 2, the person has acquired at least 12 months of sea service on board vessels, other than stationary MOUs, that have a propulsion power of at least 750 kW, while serving in the function of an officer in charge of an engineering watch, a second engineer or a chief engineer, out of which at least 3 months were served on vessels that have a propulsion power of at least 3000 kW. (see note 8 of ANNEX 3)

Rights and Privileges
2.1.2 A CoC as “Second Engineer Officer (STCW)” grants the holder the same rights and privileges as those granted to a person holding a “Second-class Engineer” (that meets the STCW Reg. III/2) issued under the current MPR.
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