Stellar Daisy

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Big Pete
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby Big Pete » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:48 am

Jolly Jack,

I remember the Chippie, replaced by the GP Fitter, replaced by the AB Handyman, but now a long distant memory......
Back in the 70's when I was a Cadet and Junior, we were repeatedly told that reduced manning wouldn't mean more work for us because the Company would invest some of the Money saved on wages in Labour saving equipment for the ships, and greater use of riding squads and shore side contractors in Port, it happened, in a small way for a short time, then reduced manning became the new "Norm" as it has every time manning has been cut since.
No surprise that that all the maintenance records are falsified to show the work has been done when nobody has time to look at it, and all Surveyors and Superintendents want to do is to look at the PM Computer programme and see no outstanding maintenance, nobody looks at the machinery any more to see if it is actually running properly.

A few years ago I sailed on a British managed reefer ship and we were asked by Management to check the Generator Conn. Rods for cracking, as a Sister ship had found some cracks. My Second and Third started stripping down the engines to crack test the conn. rods. I found that they didn't know how to use the Rocol type spray crack detector, they didn't use the cleaner, just sprayed Red dye all over the oily Bottom End, then sprayed the developer over it until all the die was hiddenand pronounced there were no cracks. I showed them how to use the dye pen properly and we found that 4 out of 6 conn rods were cracked on each engine. The managers wouldn't believe it and sent out makers men to double check and they agreed they were all cracked. They also checked the ovality of the bottom ends and found they were all beyond makers limits, which was probably why they had cracked. However, all the maintenance records for the engines showed the rods were crack free and within limits for ovality. It turned the Engineers were unsure how to use an internal mike and when there readings had been different from the previous readings had copied the previous readings into the new maintenance report.
Very few people at Sea have any understanding of the basics of their job any more, and the continuous pressure from management to have "perfect" maintenance records and freshly painted ships to impress Surveyors, is definitely undermining safety and proper maintenance.

BP
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D Winsor
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby D Winsor » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:24 am

Very few people at Sea have any understanding of the basics of their job any more, and the continuous pressure from management to have "perfect" maintenance records and freshly painted ships to impress Surveyors, is definitely undermining safety and proper maintenance.


I couldn't agree more. What do you expect when schools have moved away from training students in the practical skills because of the belief that technology had progressed to the point where such skills were deemed unnecessary or training them to use their brains and their 5 senses to tell them something was wrong because the information technology provides is so much accurate and reliable. It makes it all that much more easier for someone on the ship or in an office to use the box on the desk to tell management the "Fake Truths" they want to see and hear that technology has provided.

Everyone is becoming so heavily dependent on Technology to "Fix" things they forget someone has to know how to do the practical things so to program the and teach the technology to "Fix" things.

Today's technology experts haven't learned the lessons and experiences of the Aboriginal cultures around the world when technology failed to effectively replace tradition methods and skills. Now the next generation of Aboriginals are scrambling to learn from their elders the traditional skills of their cultures before it is lost forever.
Troubleshooting 101 "Don't over think it - K.I.S.S. it"

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JK
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby JK » Mon May 08, 2017 4:10 am

Another ship, the Stellar Queen has found cracks. From Splash 247.

Cracking could point to bad welding techniques and hard points. The plan could have been good but the execution faulty in the conversions.

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JK
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby JK » Fri May 19, 2017 2:07 am

if you haven't seen it, there's been a commentary on the loss of the Daisy. There will be no investigation and the families are paid off. The definitive cause will never be known and the shredders have probably been working overtime. Part 1 talks about the Costa Concordia and how one man went to jail.
http://splash247.com/unsafe-draft-part-two/

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D Winsor
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby D Winsor » Fri May 19, 2017 4:15 am

JK wrote:if you haven't seen it, there's been a commentary on the loss of the Daisy. There will be no investigation and the families are paid off. The definitive cause will never be known and the shredders have probably been working overtime. Part 1 talks about the Costa Concordia and how one man went to jail.
http://splash247.com/unsafe-draft-part-two/


Very interesting reading. What's even more interesting are some of the comments of others about the article.

It definitely proves that, many of the aging ships, along with the crew that sail them, still sailing the world are considered expendable by their owners. Unfortunately Ship owners will continue to be very happy to continue to treat them as such, as long as the insurance companies are willing to pay for the losses without the risk of investigation in amounts that usually far exceed the vessel's cargo and scrap value.

Here's a novel idea. Once a vessel exceeds a certain age Insurance companies would insert into the policy an arbitrarily escape clause, regardless of condition determined during the most recent "Special Survey. Such a clause would state that if a ship is lost and the Port State of Registry or any other relevant authority fails to carry out an investigation into the loss with all available worldwide assets. The maximum amount paid to the owner would be 1/2 the vessel's current scrap value or less on date of the loss. Hopefully once Ship Owners realize that there is no profit in the risk of the loss of a ship operating past it's expected life span in an era of record low bulk freight rates, many more of these aging "Rust Buckets" will be scrapped. If it is thought that Insurance Companies can't or won't do such a thing, just read the fine print in a Personal Home Owners or Auto/Pleasure Craft Insurance Policies. These Policies are full of arbitrary "Escape Clauses" based any number of factors including the age and condition of the asset being insured designed for one purpose "Limiting the Insurer's Liability" for payment of claims.
Troubleshooting 101 "Don't over think it - K.I.S.S. it"

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JK
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby JK » Fri May 19, 2017 8:50 am

Not expected to pass fifth special survey. Sinks in good weather. Yeh that.

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JollyJack
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby JollyJack » Wed May 24, 2017 3:14 pm

Coffin ships are, and always will be, part of the industry. Seafarers have always been, and always will be, expendable. Until life is more valuable than money, that's how it always will be.
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JK
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby JK » Thu May 25, 2017 2:31 am

A comment was made on one of the articles, that as many people died on this ship as died at the concert the other day. The Daisy is another footnote in history it seems.

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JK
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby JK » Fri May 26, 2017 5:25 am

Busan Coast Guard has raided the offices of South Korean ore carrier specialist Polaris Shipping in relation to the sinking of Stellar Daisy.Source: http://www.sea-web.com

SMS
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby SMS » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:55 am

That's a heart wrenching read. I sailed for the longest time on one of the six Bridge-class OBO's in the seventies. MV Tyne Bridge. In fact we were on the same run as the Derbyshire. Iron ore and concentrates from Canada, South America, then around the Cape to Japan. Discharge in Japan, change over for crude oil from Kharg Island for Europe. Back to NA for Iron Ore. As I recall we were a month behind the Derbyshire when she went down.
Tyne Bridge, state of the art in her day, but an absolutely work horse. First IG system to be installed, and a nightmare. B&W main engine 980mm bore, 3000 mm stroke, 3 fuel injectors / cylinder. GD things were 98 lb each. Pushrod was 8 ft tall and over 8 inches in dia.
Bloody one cylinder head C/W exhaust valve was 15T. Water tube boiler, TA, 4 huge steam cargo pumps.
To recall some of the storms we encountered gives me the willies today. Even worse was watching her in Brazil being loaded with Iron Ore and seeing her down to her draft marks in under 5 hours. It's no wonder they developed cracking around the E/R bulkheads.

After a 9 month trip I was home about a month when the Personnel Manager called to ask if I'd fly to Australia as they were having a few problems with the boiler. Cricky Moses!!! I could actually walk into the boiler, not a bloody tube left, just a burnt out shell...

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JK
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby JK » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:31 am

5 hours! That is pretty quick :(

The one I was on, cracked on the #5 hatch combing ( or 6, can't remember now), I remember great gobs of welding for repairs.
Good thing I was young and rather stupid at the time or I would have been off there much sooner!

I read that Polaris is laying up some of their older VLOCs .

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JK
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Re: Stellar Daisy

Postby JK » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:22 am

The Korean Registry was raided as part of the investigation.

KR also classed the Sewol, the ferry that sank with the loss of all of the students.

I hope their feet get held to the fire.

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JollyJack
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Postby JollyJack » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:31 pm

My very first time in Canada was on the bulker Temple Bar, into Port Cartier for iron ore. 5 loading conveyors loaded 25,000 tonnes of iron ore in 3 hours! You could see the draught marks going down! One other thing I remember distinctly, it was late November, I had to go up to the sharp end for some reason, when I had a terrible urge to pee. Looked around carefully, nobody about, so I pee'd over the side. I SWEAR to this day, it was ice when it landed in the oggin!
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JK
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StellarCosmo

Postby JK » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:52 am

It took 22 deaths for the Cosmo to be scrapped, otherwise it would still be out there.

http://splash247.com/polaris-sends-vint ... scrapping/


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