CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

In this area, you can comment on employers, trends, jobs, rumors affecting the jobs and job prospect of Marine Engineers.
User avatar
The Dieselduck
Administrator
Posts: 2747
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:41 pm
Currently located: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast of Canada)

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby The Dieselduck » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:56 pm

tintean:

Yes, there is certainly quite a few eyebrow raising tickets out there. But I think this is mostly an issue of training, and lack of experience. I have heard complaints from institutions that they are limited to what they are teaching, dumming down training to meet TC specs rather that what industry needs - competent independent marine engineers.

But we must also face the fact that all workplaces, including shipboard, are changing. Youth is moving in, and have to. They do not have the lengthy experience that ship owners have come to enjoy over the past 20 years, there just isn't going to be those oilers and junior engineers with 20 years experience anymore. I have long argued that shipowners knew of this looming shortage but chose to ignore it. The system Transport Canada is pushing right now provides no realistic hope of progression for oilers and junior engineers, therefore they will leave to go to other industries. Further compounding a engineering staff shortage.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

Revolver
Day Working Engineer
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Revolver » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:24 pm

I don't want to be a prick, but I also don't want to dumb down what we do.
We deal with the physical sciences. Just because you can turn a wrench doesn't make you an engineer.

When you're on watch read an exam subject for half hour every day, when you're off watch practice that subject for a half hour every day. After a hitch you'll probably know enough to get through the exam. Wash, Rinse, and repeat.
There is quite literally a library of information on this website to go over.

Or if you have really tried for a long time, it hasn't been working, and you REALLY do want to move up - take time off, go to school and learn it. Take out a loan. Get another mortgage on your home. Sell your home and rent while you're in school.
Sometimes you have to make sacrifices in life to achieve goals.
If it was easy, everyone would have the ticket...like they almost did LoL

And then there's all the certs and training...it'll probably cost a few grand and chunks of vacation time, but the associated raise with the ticket advancement will pay for the course costs in a few weeks, and then you're up.

I have a family, kids, house... between 2015-2016 I spend almost 10k out of pocket in courses to broaden my job potentials and hire-ability. And this was between jobs because of the downturn, not having a paycheck, just some EI was all. Broke? Ya fuckin' knows!

I pushed and got my next ticket, and a job with it, and a LOT of job offers on top of that. Feels good man.

Ratherbeonvacation
Leak Patrol
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:09 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Ratherbeonvacation » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:43 am

Revolver

Been following this post and reading all your comments. I totally agree with your opinions and views on SSB 05/2017. I was the first to say "This is not going to work" when everyone was applying for their Chief's license. When it was issued I did not even make a big deal out of it. Never even told anyone. In the back of my mind it was to good to be true. When the letter came to send it back I was kind of like "I told you so". But the issue from what I see in this forum is the way the whole thing went down. Issue something in May saying everything is good. 6 months later take it back. Obviously something when wrong. This had to go through many hands to get approved before posting It publically and allow people to apply for something to meet the international certification of STCW 2010. Someone screwed up and we want to know. They will not issue a statement of what happened. I do believe legal action will be taken. Government officials should be contacted and demand answers. A public apology should be made and a way forward should be developed to prevent this from happening in the future. In the meanwhile, I agree get cracking at the books if you want to advance but.......

"take time off, go to school and learn it. Take out a loan. Get another mortgage on your home. Sell your home and rent while you're in school"

Are you serious? If so, you are pretty hard core.............that's a bit extreme. Put your family and home in jeopardy for work? I think most guys are thinking the exact opposite of that. But just my opinion

Revolver
Day Working Engineer
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Revolver » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:35 pm

Yeah, you're not wrong there lol I can be a bit extreme. This is my passion. My leisure reading is technical manuals haha some of my best troubleshooting is while I'm asleep and dreaming about Engineering. (Writing it out... It's clear I have a problem hahaha)
#1 My family, and #2 Engineering; basically the only two things I care about.

That being said I'll get to some logical points...I spent ~$10k out of pocket, a bunch of time in courses, and a few months going through the exam process...
But with the new ticket and job, I got like $30-35k/yr raise, a lot of job offers for options, and feels like a lot more job security.
So, I never ever considered it as putting my family in jeopardy, it was an investment and has already well paid us back in a few short months.




Someone screwed up and we want to know. They will not issue a statement of what happened. I do believe legal action will be taken. Government officials should be contacted and demand answers. A public apology should be made and a way forward should be developed to prevent this from happening in the future.


Maybe it was someone from a foreign ticket holding background working at TC, figured this is how they do it where they got their original ticket, stamped it good to go. Then someone else saw (maybe through mass amounts of applications and email inquiry's - I know I sent an email to TC asking wtf is this shit?) and realized it's insane and said "hold your horses, this is fucked! We have to quash this now!" - and the thing was stamped out.

So yeah... We want to know what happened. There could be a possibility of legal action, and we want this to never happen again.
Our sector of TC is too fucking slow, and clearly mustn't be equipped with enough skilled/intelligent people to come up with adequate plans to implement a suitable system for us as Canadians that also meet international STCW conventions to which Canada is a signatory.

(Another ramble... Hopefully coherent this time lol)

Sea Rover
Deck Plate Wanderer
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Sea Rover » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:33 am

I took time off to get my 1st Class. I spent slot of my savings and "put my family in jeopardy". It paid off, big raise and better working conditions, also more opportunity ashore.

I agree with pretty much everything Revolver has said and can't understand why more people don't stop being lazy whiners and write the exams.

Aavenger
Deck Plate Wanderer
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:13 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Aavenger » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:19 pm

no wonder there is a shortage of qualified people,i am willing to bet these descisions were pushed through by non-native canadians who populate
the hierarchy of TC in ottawa.These chaps reinforce the validity of the peter principle!Can i compete withe STCW2010 officers from other countries?At present I think not....so the rest of the world makes it easier to fill the void(like it or not)TC in its wisedom makes it more difficult
to expand an already large void.I am lucky I am retired but keep the ticket valid to do a hobble or two when i wish,the number of calls I get indicates
an extreme shortage of 2nd and 1st class ticket.Now I guess the foerigners will pour in on the stcw2010 tickets and fill the void.....Good work TC
more of your countrymen will arrive soon.

blackhatch
Tanktop Cleaner
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:06 am

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby blackhatch » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:28 am

Firstly, some people were in the process of writing the exams when the system changed. It is not a case of wanting something for free, it is a case of being told to stop doing that, no need anymore, here's your licence, go get a job. Then 6 months later, give us back your licence, lose your job, go find another job. These decisions affect hundreds of people. I am not saying they all deserve to get Chiefs, and 2nds licences. What I am saying, is that if you close down a manufacturing factory, or a fish plant, or Sears affecting hundreds of peoples livelihoods it's on the news, people want answers, demand answers. whereas this screw up will just drift silently into the past. What happens next? We have seen the introduction of MED refreshers, which I agree with, Now more courses for licence upgrades, on top of MAFA, and everything else that we sailors have to keep up to date at our own expense. If we don't stand up for ourselves at some point we are sitting ducks for every cash grab going.

tintean
Deck Plate Wanderer
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:48 am

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby tintean » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 am

All the hoopla about tickets is irrelevant anyway. When CETA and TIPP are implemented in full, there will be no more Canadian sailors. That's O K for us older guys but I would urge younger people to find a new career while you have time or figure out how to live on 3rd world wages in Canada. That seems to be the ultimate aim of business. A surveyor from LLoyds told me this some years ago in Quebec City. I didn't believe him at the time, but I guess he was right after all. In summary; any Canadian sailors in their 20s or 30s will never retire from this profession at 65.

Sea Rover
Deck Plate Wanderer
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Sea Rover » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:04 am

The only reason a TC 1st or 2nd Class License has any value is because they are relatively difficult to obtain. Presently, if you want to succeed in this system all you have to do is write a few exams and it is very likely you will have a good high paying job. Once the new policy of "free licenses" comes into effect it will be very difficult to get promoted and the wages/working conditions will erode. Anyone who is seriously interested in a career as a marine engineer is better off under the current MPR.

Revolver
Day Working Engineer
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Revolver » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:45 pm

blackhatch wrote:Firstly, some people were in the process of writing the exams when the system changed.


I was half done my exams for my last ticket and then this came into place, but i just finished the exam process and all was well. I'm glad I did haha
The examiner was so lackluster about it though lol I completely aced my written and he wasn't going to stump me on anything in the orals, which he didn't at all, but he was also depressed because he was figuring he'd be out of a job himself soon enough with no exams.

EvenKeel
Deck Plate Wanderer
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:47 am

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby EvenKeel » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:02 pm

Revolver:

Do you have any of those six First Class exams "completely aced" yet? Have you written any theory exams since college or just motor and general knowledge?

The First Class theory exams are more in line with what a hawsepiper faces in difficulty to move up to a Thirds or a Seconds. It isn't the motor or general exams that trip them up. The mathematical subjects can be hard to master outside of a classroom if you are interested in more than memorizing sample questions.

The cadet exemptions up to Second Class make the process easier to that point but then there is a big jump to a First Class as you know. Until you have the big ticket in hand with all the theory exams written, I would try a little humility when writing in a forum like this.

Revolver
Day Working Engineer
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Revolver » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:55 pm

Duly noted, fully understand, my respect to everyone who busts their ass to get it done one way or the other - don't get me wrong, I want anyone who goes for it to succeed, I wish everyone the best.
Reed's walks through and explains everything you need to know, for outside classroom people.

Don't have any of my first class compete, don't have the sea time to get my first class yet. That being said, all this ruckus about exams has gotten me looking forward to the challenge - I'll keep ya posted when I do :?

And humility aside, the examiner literally said "you did quite well on your exams, I'm going to have a hard time to stump you" - so it's not me lacking a modest or humble opinion about my exam results I don't know my "grades", just relaying the sentiment.
(And this is on the internet, in real life I'm humble as they come - keep expectations low so your surpass them in performance eh? Lol!)

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1128
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby JollyJack » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:41 pm

I found that it isn't very difficult to "stump" college engineers, just ask them to anneal, forge, harden and temper mild steel, or even the steel making process. What's the difference between a Besemer and an open hearth furnace, for example. Both 1st year apprenticeship questions for a fitter.
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

Revolver
Day Working Engineer
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby Revolver » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:25 pm

This was for my 2nds, not my 4ths. Could have found a multitude of ways to stump me at 4ths level - I probably never even knew where/why I'd use hydrazine or even it's Chemical formula.


You're answers are all right from Reed's general.

Matter of fact, 2 years ago when my chief told me to anneal a Cu washer and to go get a bucket of water I gave him a short second look and cocked my head ever so slightly - he barked at me "ok I know I know, colleges don't show you much, go get a bucket of water and I'll show you how to anneal".
Fuck it lol
Alrighty, Chief by.

User avatar
The Dieselduck
Administrator
Posts: 2747
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:41 pm
Currently located: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast of Canada)

Re: CoC as per STCW 2010 Manila Convention

Postby The Dieselduck » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:04 pm

I wrote a piece on my observations of the licensing system in Canada almost five years ago, http://www.dieselduck.info/library/01%2 ... bilge.html and where I stand. I think it is valid today, as it was when I wrote it.

I am a believer that the system must change, because we are doomed otherwise. With the specter of "tradedeals" like CETA on the horizon why would I risk "mortgaging my family home" or precious time with my children - I barely see them as it is. I get what your saying, but especially now, with a shaky and even more unpredictable Transport Canada it is a risk to my family, that simply does not pass the smell test. Do you really think this is how doctors go through their careers? It was bad enough just "rolling the dice" on the off chance the examiner will approve your memorized answers, on one of the 25 exams I have to take.

At the very least, having a system equal to our international peers would give us a chance for our careers not to finish in the dustbin within the next couple of years. But yes, "gumptions" and "pulling our bootstraps" are sure going to make us stand apart from the rest our our peers, "hey, look at those Canadians, proud to know difference between steel making methods", but unable to make a living.

Here is an excellent source of information on steel making https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelmaking
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net


Return to “General Job topics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests