MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

General maritime and engineering discussion occurs on this board. Feel free to post newsbits, comments, ask questions about maritime matters and post your opinions.
User avatar
The Dieselduck
Administrator
Posts: 3134
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:41 pm
Currently located: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast of Canada)

MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby The Dieselduck » Mon May 28, 2018 4:09 pm

From my latest blog entry...

Big changes to the Marine Engineering certification process in Canada are underway to bring it inline with the Manila Amendments of the SCTW code. STCW2010 as it is called, came into force January 2012, however Transport Canada and its Transport Canada Marine Safety (TCMS) division, the federal regulator responsible for certifying seafarers in Canada, has yet to produce supporting regulations. They were required to be issued two years after agreeing to the term of the Manila Amendments, accepted in 2010, which means TC was required to produce the regulations by 2012, and be fully implemented by January 2017, after a five years introduction period.

Now halfway through 2018, Canadian seafarers are still waiting for an update to the Marine Personnel Regulations (MPR). With Canadian seafarer’s STCW 2010 compliance in limbo a great deal of anxiety has befallen the seafaring community in Canada. This was made worst for engineers, with the on / off again boondoggle Ship Safety Bulletin dictating certification requirements, then not, and all the trouble in between.

The Canadian Marine Engineering community may soon start to see the light at the end of this long dark tunnel, in the form of a briefing by TCMS at the Canadian Marine Advisory Committee (CMAC) meeting, held in Ottawa in early May 2018. Fellow engineer, friend of the site, and BCFMWU envoy, Jodi Gaudet, sent me her notes from the meeting, and they reveal big changes for certification of Marine Engineers in Canada.

The “long and short of it” is that Transport Canada is committed to the SCTCW route. Meaning that despite the current situation, which seems to head far away from the IMO, into a domestic licensing system, TCMS wants to certify under international norms.

Here are the major highlights, or at least some of TCMS’s intentions:

- No more 4th and 3rd class Certificate of Competency (CoC). MPR will adopt the three certificate model from the rest of the world. If your hold a 4th Class CoC, or a 3rd Class CoC, you will turn that in to TCMS, and be issued a Watchkeeping Marine Engineer CoC. There will be endorsement within this rank, that will give authority to act in certain capacities (Chief Engineer Endorsement to <3000kW, Second Engineer <3000kW, Electric Plant >1000V, etc). The new system does away with the four “Classes”, turns them into:

New rank Structure
-Chief Engineer (STCW III/2)
- Second Engineer (STCW III/2)
- Watchkeeping Engineer (STCW III/1 and STCW III/3)
- Also adds Rank of Electro Technical Officer (ETO) and keeps Small Vessel Machinery Operator (SVMO)

- Major changes to Marine Engineering examinations. No more 6 out of 9 essay questions to answer exams. Exams are proposed to be multiple choice style, with two levels of questions; Level 1 and Level 2.

Jodi comments:

Engineer in charge of the watch (formerly 3rd and 4th class) will now need the following courses:

Practical skills
Ship watchkeeping practices (propulsion plant simulator level 1)
Leadership and teamwork
Applied mathmatics
Technical drawing
Naval architechture, level 1
Electro technology, level 1
Thermodynamics, level 1
Applied mechanics, level 1
Diesel engine propulsion systems level 1 (engineering knowledge motor)
Auxillary machinery and systems level 1 (engineering knowledge general)
Maritime law and ships business level 1 (suspect this is an oral exam)

Second engineer (formerly 2nd class, motor)

Leadership and managerial skills
Ship management practices (propulsion plant level 2)
Naval architechture, level 2
Electro technology, level 2
Thermodynamics, level 2
Applied mechanics, level 2
Diesel engine propulsion systems level 2 (engineering knowledge motor)
Auxillary machinery and systems level 2 (engineering knowledge general)
Maritime law and ships business level 2(suspect this is an oral exam)

Chief Engineer (formerly 1st class, motor)

Practical skills (if you don’t already have it?)
Technical drawing
Ship watchkeeping practices (propulsion plant simulator level 1)
Ship management practices (propulsion plant level 2)
Naval architechture, level 2
Electro technology, level 2
Thermodynamics, level 2
Applied mechanics, level 2
Diesel engine propulsion systems level 2 (engineering knowledge motor)
Auxillary machinery and systems level 2 (engineering knowledge general)
Maritime law and ships business level 2(suspect this is an oral exam)



- New Training requirements
Basic and Advance Course for low flash point fueled vessels (LNG)
Basic and Advance Course for personnel operating in Polar Waters
High Voltage (1000V +) Course
Managerial Skills course
Leadership and Teamwork Course
- Updates to training requirements
Marine Emergency Duties Refresher Training mandatory for NC1
Passenger Safety Management on passenger ships
Plus others…
- Introduction of new Drug Policy. New blood alcohol level limit is 0.05% or .25 milligrams per liter detected by breathalyzer.
- Additional items of proposed change
Near Coastal boundaries changes (affects validity of CoC)
Changes to training standards for institutions
Training guidance for Offshore Vessels
Grouping of “non-convention” vessels by length, instead of tonnage
Marine Medical standards
Maritime Labour Standards disambiguate

Yes, there is a great deal to digest.

These changes are primarily aimed at the Engineering Department; Deck Department has some changes as well, but not as extensive. Transport Canada briefed the CMAC audience about their timeline for implementing these changes, “MPR2019” as they are currently titled, here is their plan:

May – June 2018 – Introduction and drafting
July – December 2018 – Consultation, publish in Dec 2018 Canada Gazette Part 1 (first step in becoming regulations)
January – May 2019 – Consultation, publish in May 2019 Canada Gazette Part 2 (final step in becoming regulations)
Full implementation, summer 2019; then repeal currently active directive issued under Ship Safety Bulletins.

I am not privy on how much effort TCMS is throwing at this MPR2019 endeavor, but I find the timeline somewhat optimistic given the scope of change and their past record on effecting change. However there must be some urgency given to the matter, as there is an air of trepidation about the community. With current Ship Safety Bulletin in force as a temporary guidance measure, they leave a great deal of would be marine engineers not entering the profession or upgrading, which will cause problems for ship operators further on.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

User avatar
JK
Enduring Contributor
Posts: 2820
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:29 am
Currently located: East Coast, Canada

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby JK » Tue May 29, 2018 7:06 am

multiple choice exams! Trick questions and multiple not quite right answers to pick from.
This is to make marking faster.
I am so glad I am done with exams.

ETA
I did some calling around. If you are planning to go through the hawse pipe and challenge the exams, it's not going to happen anymore. You are going to have to do the formal schooling route.
Apparently Canada is 20 years behind the 8 ball on this change!

Revolver
Chief Engineer
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby Revolver » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:08 am

Well I'm glad it's a must to go to a registered school in order to do the exams, rather than just sea time, apply, and be given a free ticket.
And if someone couldn't get through the 6/9 long answer, surely they can get through a multiple choice exam, the answers are already there for ya. So that should alleviate the lack of seconds and chiefs, which will be great for companies bottom lines.

This is better than what was proposed last May-Nov.

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1176
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby JollyJack » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:50 am

Yes, it will alleviate the lack of 2nds and Chiefs, it will also alleviate the need for 2nds and Chiefs to know what they are talking about. Next aim is to alleviate the need to pay anyone!
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

Revolver
Chief Engineer
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby Revolver » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:46 pm

As I said, good for the company's bottom line...
Fuckin'hell.

Shame_on_TC_2017
Bilge Dweller
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:51 pm
Currently located: Canada

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby Shame_on_TC_2017 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:49 am

From Jodi’s notes it seems that both second engineer and chief engineer have level 2 exams and watchkeeping engineers have level 1 exams?

I am wondering what this means for second class license holders who are upgrading to first class? Is it the same exams level 2 for chief and second? Or is it chief level 2 and second level 2 ?

Seems unclear if seconds will have to pass a new set of exams?

I have my seconds and am planning to retake the last year of the cadet program in Owen sound - the MEMG program in 2019 to get credit for 1st class part A’s that new cadet graduates all receive. Then all that would be left for me would be the general / motor / oral exams. However it seems unclear with this info if that would be necessary.

Very frustrating with little forward guidance

Thanks for the info Dieselduck

Aavenger
Deck Plate Wanderer
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:13 pm

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby Aavenger » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:34 am

So glad I only have a few years left,what a laughing stock TC
Has become .....

User avatar
JK
Enduring Contributor
Posts: 2820
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:29 am
Currently located: East Coast, Canada

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby JK » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:08 am

Aavenger wrote:So glad I only have a few years left,what a laughing stock TC
Has become .....

TC is also suffering from a lack of qualified marine personnel I think. The policy wankers are running the show and marine expertise is lacking.

User avatar
JollyJack
Fleet Engineer
Posts: 1176
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 am
Currently located: Eastern Canada

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby JollyJack » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:54 pm

I'm glad I retired. :)
Discourage incest, ban country "music".

User avatar
The Dieselduck
Administrator
Posts: 3134
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:41 pm
Currently located: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast of Canada)

consultation sessions across Canada

Postby The Dieselduck » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:12 pm

Marine Personnel Regulations - those regulations that dictate everything for professional seafarers in Canada - are coming - many years late, but they are coming. As a seafarer in Canada I have been "blindsided" by lack of consultation in the past when drawing up these regs that directly affect us. Now, it looks like TC wants y/our input. Lets gives it to them. I will try to attend Vancouver's presentation.

---------------------------------------------
I am pleased to announce that Transport Canada will be holding consultation sessions across Canada to discuss the proposed amendments to the Marine Personnel Regulations (MPR).

Below are the web-links to register for the MPR consultations. Following your registration, the meeting documentation will be sent to you.

1) Vancouver, British Columbia - November 19, 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/mpr-consult ... 1565269108

2) Toronto, Ontario - November 21, 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/mpr-consult ... 1565565996

3) Quebec City, Quebec - November 23, 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/consultatio ... 1565351354

4) Halifax, Nova Scotia - November 27, 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/mpr-consult ... 1565418555

5) St. John’s, Newfoundland and Labrador - November 29, 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/mpr-consult ... 1565629185


If you require additional information regarding these sessions, please feel free to contact Ava Cramp, at (613) 990-2613, or by email at: ava.cramp@tc.gc.ca...

Your views are important to us and we look forward to your participation in these sessions.

Sincerely yours,


Elisabeth Bertrand
A/Executive Director, Marine Personnel Standards, Certification and Medicine



Je suis ravie d’annoncer que Transports Canada tiendra des séances de consultation à l’échelle du Canada pour discuter des modifications proposées au Règlement sur le personnel maritime (RPM).

Vous trouverez ci-dessous les liens Web vous permettant de vous inscrire aux consultations sur le RPM. La documentation de la réunion vous sera envoyée après votre inscription.

1) Vancouver (Colombie-Britannique) – Le 19 novembre 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/mpr-consult ... 1565269108

2) Toronto (Ontario) – Le 21 novembre 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/mpr-consult ... 1565565996

3) Québec (Québec) – Le 23 novembre 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/consultatio ... 1565351354

4) Halifax (Nouvelle-Écosse) – Le 27 novembre 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/mpr-consult ... 1565418555

5) St. John’s (Terre-Neuve ¬et ¬Labrador) – Le 29 novembre 2018
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/mpr-consult ... 1565629185

Si vous avez besoin de renseignements additionnels au sujet de ces séances, n’hésitez pas à communiquer avec Ava Cramp au 613-990-2613 ou, par courriel, à ava.cramp@tc.gc.ca....

Vos points de vue sont importants pour nous et nous nous réjouissons de votre participation à ces séances.

Cordialement,


Elisabeth Bertrand
Directrice exécutive par intérim, Normes du personnel maritime, certification et médecine
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

User avatar
The Dieselduck
Administrator
Posts: 3134
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:41 pm
Currently located: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast of Canada)

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby The Dieselduck » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:54 pm

Fresh off the press, MRP 2019 discussion / consultation paper.

2018.11.07-MPR2019 Discussion.PDF
(1.52 MiB) Downloaded 117 times
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

Revolver
Chief Engineer
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby Revolver » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:44 pm

*knuckle crack*
Here we go...

User avatar
The Dieselduck
Administrator
Posts: 3134
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:41 pm
Currently located: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast of Canada)

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby The Dieselduck » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:16 pm

Essentially this is the new MPR which dictates the future of engineering licenses. Have a look at the engineering side of it, and if anyone has observations please send them to me, or post it here. I am planning to attend the Vancouver consultation and will hopefully bring up and clarify various items where I can.

Some things that stands out is the new 6000kw Chief and SVMO for the large majority of Cdn vessels. Could be interesting in dumbing down skills. Also i see that certificate of profiency will be issued to non canadian training. This could be very big.

I am slowly absorbing it. Let me know your observations.
Martin Leduc
Certified Marine Engineer and Webmaster
Martin's Marine Engineering Page
http://www.dieselduck.net

Revolver
Chief Engineer
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby Revolver » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:40 pm

This is...more or less the same as last may. Application process with sea time when holding a ticket over watchkeeper, but with some extra courses.

Chief under 6MW is our 2nd class.

And what in the fuck is 211 (1)?
And notice subsection 89(1) is "reserved".

When you go to the meeting, tell them to drop 211.
I mean we're supposed to meet global STCW, but fuck the rest of the world's tickets. We get theirs, they don't get ours - we're supposed to be the higher standard.
At least make them do:
The classic 3 (at the appropriate level), Law (included in oral?), and the courses E/R mgmnt, leadership and managerial skills.

There's places around the world where tickets are just bought...
We surely pay for the ticket lol but it's the fortune in an the training and courses.


(Presuming I've read that right).

Shame_on_TC_2017
Bilge Dweller
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:51 pm
Currently located: Canada

Re: MPR2019 on the horizon, finally

Postby Shame_on_TC_2017 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:57 am

This is pretty much the same as what the uk is doing. Just unclear to me what exactly is required for second class to get chief. If there’s is only level one and two exams will seconds be credited for everything?

I guess this is what Mr Bruno Dugay tried to put in with that fast SSB. Too bad it’s reversed and now gone 180deg turn and then another 180deg turn...

I wonder how long it will take for this all to be implimented? Meaning how long until they have level one and two exams?

Also will engine room ratings be able to challenge exams or will they have to take a training program? Not clear to me.

I’m going to look forward to attending one of the hearings.


Return to “Crew Mess”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests