Your Rights & Federal Vax Mandate

General maritime and engineering discussion occurs on this board. Feel free to post newsbits, comments, ask questions about maritime matters and post your opinions.
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Dieseldude
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Your Rights & Federal Vax Mandate

Post by Dieseldude »

It seems that our moderator has taken offense to forum content. Has the discussion struck a nerve ? Have I anything to apologize for ? He has offered nothing of substance to back his reason:

"it’s going down the rabbit hole. You want to expand on epidemiology then there are places for that which is not here."

At least he was honest to reveal his bias: JK » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:47 pm: "I can't comment because I fully agree with the vaccine requirement." I respect his right to have a personal position. But today he took the extreme position to lock the discussion. How is moderation that is affected by bias balanced moderation ? The topic gathered much interest with 109 views and 7 replies in about 4 days, quite high traffic for this forum.

How can the subject of injections to control an epidemic or pandemic be rightly discussed without some mention of matters of epidemiology ? If readers wish not to read about basic technical matters of epidemiology, they are certainly free to ignore the technical background that supports the main points, and move on to those points. Or they are free to not read any of it at all. But interested users have been done a disservice by closure of the discussion. Where is the rabbit hole in the discussion ? Do any points lack logical and factual backing ? If so, is it not the responsibility of the moderator to draw attention to any errors before locking the discussion. It seems that Dieselduck has joined the mainstream media to censor views that depart from official narrative. I have learned that the CBC website practices such sanitizing of comments to stories from users. We are also well aware of the restrictions on various social media. And now on Dieselduck we see the same authoritarian style censorship that we would expect in such regimes as China or North Korea. Why in "The True North Strong and Free" is free discussion not permitted ?

Censoring legitimate discussion on the most profound situation and subject in anyone's memory to affect the shipping industry and society in general has damaged this forum. If members are not permitted to freely and respectfully offer their comments, then what is the purpose of such a forum ? Everyone who reads this has been profoundly effected by the COVID phenomenon and the injections. To borrow from Arlo Guthrie, we've been , selected, inspected,neglected, dejected, and some have even been injected. Of those, some might have suffered adverse reactions, or they may know people who have. It is no small matter for the government to usurp power over fundamental Charter and Constitutional rights. It is the duty of government to defend such rights, not infringe upon them. In censoring discussion which involves these rights, this form moderation has supported the oppression.

Please keep the discussion going friends, whether here or in other situations. If we give in to fear, the battle to preserve our rights is lost. Getting them back when they are gone would be near impossible. Is support of traditional freedoms when they are under attack such a harmful position that discussion of it must be closed? Should health concerns for self and colleagues similarly be closed to discussion. People facing ill health due to possible affects of an injection that has not been subject to normal safety regime is beyond profound. Large numbers of personnel locked out of their jobs and many ships idled is no trivial matter to dismiss as "down the rabbit hole". Things seem to be going down a hole on a scale that is orders of magnitude larger than a rabbit hole.

I kindly ask the moderator to restore the discussion of a subject that so profoundly affects us all to the point that many face loss of livelihood, and the shipping industry is threatened by a loss of personnel to the injustice of a mandate that lacks true scientific scrutiny and lawful backing.
wes
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Re: Your Rights & Federal Vax Mandate

Post by wes »

Hi,
Please don't squash this discussion. My career is being taken away from me and I'm very distraught.
Engineers are supposed to be intelligent people who have better than average understanding of science and numbers. But instead here it has seemed to be old boys club old school attitude. Very disheartening.
Dieseldude
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Re: Your Rights & Federal Vax Mandate

Post by Dieseldude »

I would like to clarify the posting dated Oct. 16, "Your Rights & Federal VAX Mandate". Since this, the moderator has unlocked it. So I would like to acknowledge this and say thanks to JK. The federal vax mandate is of course of great concern to all in the marine industry. Even for those of us who have had the jab, we still could face job loss. When some crew assert our Charter Section 7 rights and refrain, ships could be idled for lack of minimum manning. That would mean no work for some of us, and a slow down in the industry, which is already suffering crew shortage. This could also mean extra demand on crew to work longer periods. A safety concern could arise if crew are suddenly placed aboard vessels with which they are not familiar.

The Canadian Merchant Service Guild's last update on the situation is dated Sept. 28, but the TC bulletin on the mandate came out Oct. 6. So the Guild has been taking its time on a response. https://www.cmsg-gmmc.ca/index.php/en/h ... en=1&own=0

For those of us who may be off the job Oct. 30 for holding to our rights, we are uncertain of a remedy. The federal government has said that exemptions for health and religious concerns would be difficult to obtain. We could be on our own. The mandate seems to be written to put all liability on employers whom they are forcing to break various existing laws including the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Criminal Code. Action4Canada has made available notices of liability for various situations. The one for employment situations can be found at
https://action4canada.com/wp-content/up ... -final.pdf
Their home page is https://action4canada.com/

The document may not offer any instant remedy. It only advises an employer of the laws that they are breaking, and that the sender will be holding them liable. The document could place vessel owners and their managers in a difficult legal position. This is not legal or medical advice, just passing on information that might be helpful to some people, who of course must make their own decisions. Anything can happen. If ships are idled for lack of crew, the FED's may have to back down as did Quebec Premier Legault when he extended his deadline for ousting health care workers. The shipping season will soon be winding down for many operators as winter weather and freeze in approaches. Uncompleted contracts and stranded ships are not a good prospect.
Chummyjigger
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Re: Your Rights & Federal Vax Mandate

Post by Chummyjigger »

Keep this topic going. I’m sure there are many more marine personnel that are in the same boat. Punn intended.
BoatNick
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Re: Your Rights & Federal Vax Mandate

Post by BoatNick »

Hopefully those who have been following the discussion, "Vaccine Mandates" will also be watching this one, since that one has been locked. We all understand that this can be a contentious issue for some members. I would like to thank all forum members for their input. But please, esteemed colleagues, let's keep it civilized and not post personal insults. Let us stay relevant to the subject of this particular discussion. Anything encountered by marine engineers on the job should be valid material for the broader web site. But this particular discussion is about "vaccine mandates" which surely affect every marine engineer in the world. I certainly appreciate the old time knowledge of engineers such as Merlyn. Many skills required in his early years were different than those of today. And some of those skills apply today. Having been trained in a mechanical trade before beginning marine engineering, I do have extra respect for fine mechanical skills that I see lacking in modern engineering training that imparts much theory, but lacks practical. But boasting of one's abilities can be seen as a form of self aggrandizement and an attempt to demean others. It might be beneficial to start a whole new discussion on old time skills like bearing refurbishment. I think that someone should go to the index page and do just that. However, that is not the topic of this discussion. In an age when bearings are factory made to specification under strict quality control, shipping companies no longer pay their engineers to cast babbit and hand scrape. I have seen many engine rooms over years of work, but have yet to find one equipped with melting pots and scraper kits. Reciprocating steam engines, coal bunkers, and riveted hulls have become relics of history too.

Our skills will be of no use when we are locked out of our job, just for asserting our rights as human beings, and our rights under citizenship of our country. Who in our industry is refusing to comply with this assault on our rights and freedoms? Who sees through the lies and law breaking of our governments ? Early on in the "pandemic" we were told to isolate for 2 weeks to "flatten the curve". Why have the politicians and news media forgotten their clever motto ? After almost 2 years, we see no end in sight. We were told that herd immunity would be achieved with such numbers as 60% and 70% vaccination rate. Now governments are unlawfully trying to force 100%. Yet statistics show vast numbers of injected people diagnosed with COVID. Israel and the UK are prime examples. We are constantly bombarded with scary news about high case numbers and hospitals bursting at the seams. Yet statistics show death rates that equate to regular influenza, and recovery rates in the 97% to 99% rate. Most people diagnosed with COVID suffer effects no worse than those of colds and mild flu. So what are all the extreme measures about? Does one need advanced degrees in molecular biology to know that we are being scammed?

After much commotion on the farm, Chicken Little eventually learned that the sky was not falling. But she and her friends faced the danger of Mr. Fox whom they defeated. Will we let Mr. Fox have us for lunch ? If we let our government take await our right to exchange our skills and labor to support ourselves, what limit is there on what they will infringe upon next ?
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The Dieselduck
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Post by The Dieselduck »

So, i think this "discussion" is best done elsewhere, I'll leave the lawyers at the guild and other unions, and the odd person who may actually be heard at TC, to discuss the merits of the mandate onto seafarers.

I think we are all pretty fed up with allot of things, these days. I am as well. I have locked this topic as I see no real discussion at this point, many other websites service this type of discussions, so please, proceed there for this type of discussion.

--------- update nov 09 -----------------

Transport Canada has issued a new Ship Safety Bulletin making vaccination of crew for COVID19 mandatory.
It applies to ships, foreign or domestic with a crew of twelve or more. Does not apply to Passengers, but all other visitors - techs, surveyors, etc
Must be vaccinated with one dose by Nov 15th, both doses by Jan 24, 2022.
SSB-17-2021E.pdf
(607.96 KiB) Downloaded 224 times
Martin Leduc
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